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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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spud101 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 10:06:03
#721 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 48
From: Unknown

What is this??!!! "Cloanto buys Amiga"???

Just read the tweet, at work now so no time to read the document.

https://twitter.com/amigadocuments/status/1092715328440799232

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Zylesea 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 14:32:32
#722 ]
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Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2114
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

Well, this sounds like it.

"the Amiga parties [...] announced that all assets had been sold to Cloanto on February 1, 2019 [...]. [...] On February 1, 2019, Cloanto completed the purchase of the Amiga assets [...]."

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1jzdHwTZ28vbMxDpgVOVQzyXSFWyBR2NE/edit

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pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 14:45:32
#723 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8969
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

Amiga IP less fractured now, which is a good news - whatever the outcome of this lawsuit.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 15:23:52
#724 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1639
From: UK

Great but will they do anything different now like make a Vampire standalone mini Amiga at a sensible price. Or sit on them and just carry on with Amiga forever. I wonder if Amiga.com site will get updated from do you remember when computers were fun LOL...

Last edited by g01df1sh on 05-Feb-2019 at 03:24 PM.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 15:25:45
#725 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1639
From: UK

What will happen to OS4.1 development is Hyperion still in control of that ?

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pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 15:32:44
#726 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8969
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Quote:
What will happen to OS4.1 development is Hyperion still in control of that ?


War of Amiga succession is raging between Cloanto and Hyperion and still some are oblivious to it.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 15:37:02
#727 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10524
From: In the village

@pavlor

Quote:
War of Amiga succession is raging between Cloanto and Hyperion and still some are oblivious to it.


As I've said so many times before...
It's not about truth. It's about what one wants to believe is true.

#6

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Hypex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 15:52:38
#728 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9484
From: Greensborough, Australia

@number6

Quote:
It's not about truth. It's about what one wants to believe is true.


The X-Files are out there.

Last edited by Hypex on 05-Feb-2019 at 03:53 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 16:01:52
#729 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote:
Well, this sounds like it.

"the Amiga parties [...] announced that all assets had been sold to Cloanto on February 1, 2019 [...]. [...] On February 1, 2019, Cloanto completed the purchase of the Amiga assets [...]."

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1jzdHwTZ28vbMxDpgVOVQzyXSFWyBR2NE/edit



Great! It looks like Itec LLC and Pentti Kouri's ghost are out of the picture so whoever wins now will be an actual Amiga company!!!





So long financial nightmare that was Pentti Kouri - You made Irving Gould look like a proper businessman!

Last edited by BigD on 05-Feb-2019 at 04:05 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 05-Feb-2019 at 04:05 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 05-Feb-2019 at 04:04 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 16:34:53
#730 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11015
From: Norway

@g01df1sh

My guess is this just the first round; there will be many fights in legal system for years to come.

No cloanto is fighting to void the settlement agreement, if that is voided then it default back to buyback agreement, and then need to fight over that in legal system, this is agreement where Hyperion got ownership until the product was finished, Amiga Inc was supposed to buy back the OS plus the addition enhancements. As Amiga Inc was financially bust at time, they were unable to pay Hyperion in full, and had to resort to shell company to hide that they were broke.

If cloanto wins that, then they might have to fight individual developers in the legal system.

As individual developers clams ownership of part of OS, due lack pay or compensation due lack of finances, due to endless legal disputes.

In all likelihood, the money spent on in the legal system is never recovered; no one wins because market is too tiny. And Cloanto won't have money to pay developers anyway. for continued development. due financial debt as they built up in the legal system.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Feb-2019 at 05:01 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Feb-2019 at 04:46 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Feb-2019 at 04:37 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 18:04:34
#731 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
What will happen to OS4.1 development is Hyperion still in control of that?


If Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. wins the lawsuit, Hyperion would likely lose the license to develop or distribute any version of AmigaOS (and would likely have to return profits from AmigaOS 3.1.4). There would be no more AmigaOS 4 unless Hyperion sold the sources but Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. maybe the only legal buyer without violating IP owned by Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. Hyperion could sit on the sources in spite, for financial reasons or for legal reasons as H&P did with AmigaOS 3.5 & 3.9 sources (Hyperion could lose control of the sources in a bankruptcy which may be worth waiting for). It is possible that AmigaOS 3.9 sources could be acquired from H&P and used to make a more complete 68k AmigaOS product instead of using AmigaOS 4 sources. The AmigaOS 4 PPC market was not valuable anyway as demonstrated by Hyperion's financial statements. Hyperion is still in control of their AmigaOS related activities, using their interpretation of the license from Amiga Inc., until a court ruling of breach of contract or court injunction forces them to stop.

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pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 18:35:54
#732 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8969
From: Unknown

@matthey

There are even worse scenarios: both Cloanto and Hyperion prevailing in some jurisdictions and losing in others. Even the legal mess we have now would have been a quite minor affair in comparison.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 18:44:12
#733 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1287
From: CRO

For all intents and purposes, both Hyperion and OS4 are as good as gone for years now. I do wonder what Ben Hermans' game is... Is he hoping to jump into 68K market by doing to Cloanto what he did to Amiga Inc?

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Zylesea 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 19:49:05
#734 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2114
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@matthey

I still think, Hyperion leaving the scene would be the best what can happen to Amiga. OS is in limbo anyway and ppc a dead end. The only "market" for Amiga is 68k (or ARM or x64 in some way). With Cloanto there may be the chance to finally get AmigaOS freed (open source). A freed OS would be way more worth than an OS in limbo.... Hyperion did more harm than good.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 20:23:22
#735 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
My guess is this just the first round; there will be many fights in legal system for years to come.


If Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. wins the lawsuit, there would be no valid license for Hyperion to continue using any Amiga IP. The local law enforcement could be contacted to force them to comply. Hyperion could probably sue for lost profits by overturning the court ruling but I doubt they could continue to operate using the Amiga IP.

Quote:

No cloanto is fighting to void the settlement agreement, if that is voided then it default back to buyback agreement, and then need to fight over that in legal system, this is agreement where Hyperion got ownership until the product was finished, Amiga Inc was supposed to buy back the OS plus the addition enhancements. As Amiga Inc was financially bust at time, they were unable to pay Hyperion in full, and had to resort to shell company to hide that they were broke.


I missed the part about Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. trying to void the settlement agreement and not just the original license contract. If the later settlement agreement is voided first, Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. could pay Hyperion at which time the original contract would likely be completed. Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. would get AmigaOS 4 for cheap and Hyperion would still likely lose their license of Amiga IP.

Quote:

If cloanto wins that, then they might have to fight individual developers in the legal system.

As individual developers clams ownership of part of OS, due lack pay or compensation due lack of finances, due to endless legal disputes.


I expect it is more likely that Hyperion would be sued by individual AmigaOS 4 developers. Upon payment, Hyperion could claim ownership of individual developers sources and turn over disputed sources in which case it is responsible for subcontracting practices and payments, it could refuse to turn over disputed sources to Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. and perhaps be sued for breach of contract or it could declare bankruptcy. Hyperion declaring bankruptcy would complicate the situation more and it could end up in court but I doubt Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. would be suing individual developers. Either Cloanto/C-A Acquisition Corp. owns the sources or the individual developers need to be paid for them. If there are illegal activities, look into suing Hyperion management for piercing the corporate veil.

Quote:

In all likelihood, the money spent on in the legal system is never recovered; no one wins because market is too tiny. And Cloanto won't have money to pay developers anyway. for continued development. due financial debt as they built up in the legal system.


The situation is very much a battle of financial attrition. It looks like Hyperion is starting in a weak financial position and good at burning financial bridges while arrogantly assuming their cheap lawyers will sustain them. Trevor Dickinson (A-Eon) has bailed out Hyperion before and is likely a Hyperion stockholder but has probably grown tired of their business ineptness and lack of work on AmigaOS 4 (likely why he bailed them out in the first place to support his A-Eon PPC hardware). Trevor used to be good friends with Mike Battilana (Cloanto) but I expect their relationship has soured as of late. I don't know Cloanto's financial situation but they seem to be a responsible small business. I do expect Mike has anonymous financial backers. Cloanto's lawyer impresses me too. I think Hyperion have bit off more than they can chew. All the pressure is on them with the most to lose. They have become a rigid old tree in a storm of change. If they will not bend then they will break.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Feb-2019 at 10:11 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 20:59:12
#736 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@Zylesea

Quote:
With Cloanto there may be the chance to finally get AmigaOS freed (open source). A freed OS would be way more worth than an OS in limbo.... Hyperion did more harm than good.


If you are prepared to go to court to fight for something then you are not going to give it away for free when you win!

You open source peeps are so deluded it's untrue!

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g01df1sh 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 21:34:45
#737 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1639
From: UK

@matthey

A section from Trevor Dickinson Blog.
Although the show was dominated by Classic Amiga machines there was good interest in the Tabor motherboard, especially from the Polish contingent at the show. Dan & Ravi from the Retro Hour Podcast gave a presentation and John Shawler of the Amigaos Podcast made the long trip from the USA. Michael Battilana of Cloanto also made another appearance.

I get the feeling Trevor is still friends with Clonanto. Hyperion on the other hand I doubt very much he is a fan when was the last time Hyperion bothered to goto an Amiga event.

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Rob 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 21:50:03
#738 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5784
From: S.Wales

@matthey

Quote:
Trevor used to be good friends with Mike Battista (Cloanto) but I expect their relationship has soured as of late.

Why would you expect that to be the case?

From Trevor's latest blog:

"Anyway, back to the show. It was good to see both Victoria and Michael Battilana who also attended Amiga Ireland 2019 the previous weekend."

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 22:55:20
#739 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

@g01df1sh & Rob
Trevor ended up on Hyperion's side when he saved them from bankruptcy and likely became a shareholder. If he had demanded majority ownership (like I would have), perhaps these latest lawsuits could have been avoided. I expect Mike was a little peeved with Trevor bailing out Hyperion but maybe he understands that Trevor was trying to save his A-Eon investments. There is probably even a small chance that they patched things up and Trevor is financially backing Mike in the lawsuit even as the value of Trevor's Hyperion stock is likely to be lost. Minority ownership in a private business often means no control to fix problems and Hyperion appears to have plenty of them.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 5-Feb-2019 23:22:12
#740 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 840
From: Vancouver, Canada

Just had a very quick skim of that document. Does this change who owns the operating system source itself? It looks like only the trademarks?

From the ASSIGNMENT section of the document:

"NOW, THEREFORE, for good and valuable consideration, the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, Assignor hereby assigns to Assignee all right, title and interest in each jurisdiction and throughout the world, in and to said trademarks together with the goodwill of the business symbolized by said trademarks, and together with any and all rights to bring and defend claims, actions, and proceedings, to recover for infringements of, or violations of rights in, said trademarks, and to obtain and retain any benefit or relief in respect of any adverse claim or infringement, or any other cause of action arising out of or related to such trademarks, whether any of the foregoing arise or occur before, on, or after the date hereof. "


Last edited by gregthecanuck on 05-Feb-2019 at 11:23 PM.

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