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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-Feb-2019 19:42:54
#861 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1133
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ne_one

The problem is, and always was, the OS itself. The owners and the legal situation was just an additional reason to move away. The only time Amiga did anything remotely technically interesting post CBM, was under Collas.

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Kronos 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-Feb-2019 19:44:18
#862 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2151
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
Sir James Dyson is a case in point,


Erm, yeah sure..... case in point for arguing that Brexit was pushed by a bunch of hypocrites.....

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-Feb-2019 22:57:45
#863 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
The implication being that the platform is forever consigned to the past because there is a lack of available talent?

There is no shortage of capable resources out there and that includes developers and the myriad of other people who are equally important to making a business viable.

The problem has always been the people running the show.


I agree. There is a huge amount of talent from fans of the Amiga. Many have lost faith because of lack of business leadership. The Amiga would not be easy to bring back to relevance but I believe it is worth a try.

Quote:

Commodore certainly wasn't the best suitor for the platform. But since that time the succession of incompetents in charge of the Amiga have made them look exceptionally brilliant.


I don't agree here. C= was well positioned to leverage the advanced technology of the Amiga. The upper management had its share of incompetents. Let's give them grades with F being Fail=incompetent.

F Irving Gould
D Marshall Smith
B+ Thomas Rattigan
F Mehdi Ali

Thomas Rattigan looked "exceptionally brilliant" in comparison but his cost cutting measured resulted in Jay Miner being let go instead of letting him improve the high end Amiga custom chips (could have gone in the Amiga 2000).

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-Feb-2019 23:30:17
#864 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1671
From: Chicago, IL

@Thread

If 100,000 to a million former Amiga users could be convince to come back as hobbyists we could have a healthy market again. Many people in today’s world use more than one platform.

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aria 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 5:26:00
#865 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Nov-2014
Posts: 21
From: Unknown

@Nonefornow

Quote:
OK. So maybe no laws were broken and there are no privacy concerns. But I am still unclear as to why Michele (or whoever) would release those e-mails with some attachments to a news organization (amiga-news.de) rather than sending them privately to Jens and say something like - here is the proof that Amiga Forever can distribute P96. I consider Michele a reasonable guy, but this looks odd. And again there could be something behind I do not fully understand.


Perhaps you are asking the wrong questions.

Jens knew about the agreement all the time, he had seen those emails before he acquired P96. He even told Mike that he knew that Cloanto had that license for emulation purposes. Everything changed when Hyperion got involved, and Jens became an extension of Hyperion in the war against Cloanto. Tobias and Alexander made the mistake of signing a contract drafted by Ben Hermans (the P96 sale to Jens), in which they stated that there was no previous license, and now we have this mess. Another case of developers saying "I was so naive, I just signed". Jens could now even use this to ask his money back from Tobias and Alexander. Except that he had also told some people that he knew about the agreement before it was executed, so he can't really blame them.

As for disclosing that email exchange to the public, Mike had informed Tobias and Alexander before the footnote was added to the 2001 amigaforever.com news item. As required by law, private details and everything not related to the business part of the case was removed.

Ben Hermans is behind everything. Just like he registered the trademark "Amiga Forever", he also assisted with the license that Jens got for the "Commodore" logo, and in making Jens that appealing proposition of "you won't have to pay for any ROMs" (Amiga, or otherwise). They are challenging Cloanto on all fronts, just because Cloanto stood up and asked a question about the interpretation of the Settlement Agreement, which Hyperion had refused to answer.

And after doing all of this, both Ben and Jens depict in their respective (and very similar and coordinated) press releases how Cloanto is litigious. Crazy, isn't it? Imagine being a developer, and a belligerent lawyer registers your product name, and then says that you are "litigious"...

Last edited by aria on 25-Feb-2019 at 05:27 AM.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 10:58:21
#866 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 840
From: Vancouver, Canada

@aria

Is that the sound of chickens coming home I hear?

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 12:05:43
#867 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5451
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

because of that I am excited about the RPi port of Aros

Of course 1 million is unrealistic, for that you would not only need a technical up to date platform including a modern desktop, you would also need unique software (or apps how it is called today) that makes it justifyable to use something amiganoid. With "modern desktop" I mean something that adapts to devices like smartphone or tablets including a new modern toolkit. That would be a lot of work (or money if somebody has to be paid). That is not realistic unfortunately. Modern features would include 64bit, SMP and full MP (for stability and security reasons). All three would break compatibility and 68k integration like petunia would be impossible (or at least need lots of extra work).

Last edited by OlafS25 on 25-Feb-2019 at 12:22 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 25-Feb-2019 at 12:19 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 12:09:38
#868 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5451
From: Unknown

@aria

that is a risky strategy for both...

if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did.

That is not good business, that is harakiri

*shakes head*

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 14:17:08
#869 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10524
From: In the village

@aria

Quote:
in making Jens that appealing proposition of "you won't have to pay for any ROMs" (Amiga, or otherwise)


An indemnification clause perhaps?

#6

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 16:42:21
#870 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1671
From: Chicago, IL

@OlafS25

Since budget minded hobbyists are using the Amiga to relive their youth I'm not sure they want or even need features like SMP and full MP. The Amiga probability is not their only platform or main platform. Why not focus on the strengths the Amiga already has? Multitasking, speed, simplicity and nostalgia.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 17:12:48
#871 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

that is a risky strategy for both...

if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did.


It could be good for AROS 68k. Maybe we will see better support for 1MiB MAPROM kickstarts in flash.

I don't really see much Amiga future for Jens anyway with 68k CPUs drying up and his reluctance to use FPGA 68k cores. If there was a 68k ASSP (ASIC marketed to 3rd parties) available that was compatible and affordable, I could see him buying 10,000 units for accelerators though.

Quote:

That is not good business, that is harakiri

*shakes head*


Amiga businesses have a lot in common in this regard. Maybe they can find some common ground after all.

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Nonefornow 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 18:27:53
#872 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 117
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

It's beginning to look as if Hyperion feels like that the 2009 settlement agreement was getting to restrictive for them.

Maybe Hyperion is just trying to find ways to expand the business (I.E. OS 3.1.4) and as such is getting in conflict with Cloanto, which seems to be happy with that agreement.

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Rob 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 20:33:20
#873 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5784
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

Quote:
if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did.


It would't be as bad for Jens as it would for Hyperion. While it's nice to have the ROM and OS files with your ACA+ or Buddha IDE they are not essential and these devices will happily sell without it. The A1200 Reloaded is a different matter since it requires at least of ROM to function. If no resolution could be found regarding licensing there are various methods they could employ to allow customers to easily install their own ROM file.

So Jens will suffer negligible damage to sales but it would have been better if hadn't got involved in Ben's political games.

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ribdevil 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 20:42:45
#874 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2010
Posts: 260
From: Vigo - Galicia - Spain

@all

Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto?

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 21:40:37
#875 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@ribdevil

Yeah, the Amiga company that made a profit! Who knew that was possible

Pigs have been flying in Italy since 1997!

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megol 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 22:02:02
#876 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 288
From: Unknown

@ribdevil

Better epitaph than that of Hyperion, known for doing exceptionally bad ports. Oh, and I think they did something OS related, guess it didn't work out as nobody ever heard of that.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 26-Feb-2019 4:58:50
#877 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1133
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ribdevil

Quote:

Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto?


Or the Cloanto that provided Commodore with code that was included in OS 3.1?
Or the Cloanto that offered not just a paint program (not a drawing program), but a whole suite of software for Amiga, at very affordable prices, and continued to develop them long after for example EA quit the Amiga, and made sure they work with RTG?
Or the Cloanto that made Personal Fonts Maker, that has been used to create tons of fonts?
Or the Cloanto that took part in development of the PNG format, and who provided Amiga with a PNG datatype, for free, once the format was a fact?
Or the Cloanto that sponsored and hosted numerous developer meetings for a free emulator, and provided the developers of a free emulator with Amiga hardware to help development of that free emulator?

You maybe should ask Toni Wilen, what he has to say, before you play wounded and butt-hurt on behalf of all UAE developers - it is getting very old!

http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwwillen_en.php
Quote:

- WinUAE is an important part of Amiga Forever from Cloanto. Do you receive money from them for your work? Do they contact you for adding such or such feature?

Technically and legally, anyone can sell WinUAE; there is nothing wrong with that. But yes, I have received Amiga hardware donations from Cloanto and they are far more useful than some money.

Last edited by kolla on 26-Feb-2019 at 05:01 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 26-Feb-2019 at 05:00 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 26-Feb-2019 8:43:46
#878 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5451
From: Unknown

@kolla

And Cloanto even supported aros kickstart replacement, direct competition for their products

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Petah 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 26-Feb-2019 13:28:37
#879 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 350
From: Unknown

Quote:
Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto?

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets
Posted on 26-Feb-2019 14:01:57
#880 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@Petah

Ignoring the condescending attitude towards Cloanto. Small time Italian software specialists carve out a niche, keep their noses clean, keep their customers happy and end up basically owning ALL the Amiga IP!

Well done Cloanto

Everyone else, stay friends with Cloanto or risk your future business. Simple on paper

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