Poster | Thread |
kolla
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 24-Feb-2019 19:42:54
| | [ #861 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Aug-2003 Posts: 3209
From: Trondheim, Norway | | |
|
| @ne_one
The problem is, and always was, the OS itself. The owners and the legal situation was just an additional reason to move away. The only time Amiga did anything remotely technically interesting post CBM, was under Collas. _________________ B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Kronos
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 24-Feb-2019 19:44:18
| | [ #862 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2664
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BigD
Quote:
BigD wrote: Sir James Dyson is a case in point,
|
Erm, yeah sure..... case in point for arguing that Brexit was pushed by a bunch of hypocrites....._________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
matthey
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 24-Feb-2019 22:57:45
| | [ #863 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2321
From: Kansas | | |
|
| Quote:
ne_one wrote: The implication being that the platform is forever consigned to the past because there is a lack of available talent?
There is no shortage of capable resources out there and that includes developers and the myriad of other people who are equally important to making a business viable.
The problem has always been the people running the show.
|
I agree. There is a huge amount of talent from fans of the Amiga. Many have lost faith because of lack of business leadership. The Amiga would not be easy to bring back to relevance but I believe it is worth a try.
Quote:
Commodore certainly wasn't the best suitor for the platform. But since that time the succession of incompetents in charge of the Amiga have made them look exceptionally brilliant.
|
I don't agree here. C= was well positioned to leverage the advanced technology of the Amiga. The upper management had its share of incompetents. Let's give them grades with F being Fail=incompetent.
F Irving Gould D Marshall Smith B+ Thomas Rattigan F Mehdi Ali
Thomas Rattigan looked "exceptionally brilliant" in comparison but his cost cutting measured resulted in Jay Miner being let go instead of letting him improve the high end Amiga custom chips (could have gone in the Amiga 2000).
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
DiscreetFX
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 24-Feb-2019 23:30:17
| | [ #864 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Feb-2003 Posts: 2538
From: Chicago, IL | | |
|
| @Thread
If 100,000 to a million former Amiga users could be convince to come back as hobbyists we could have a healthy market again. Many people in today’s world use more than one platform.
_________________ Sent from my Quantum Computer. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
aria
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 5:26:00
| | [ #865 ] |
|
|
|
Member |
Joined: 6-Nov-2014 Posts: 27
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Nonefornow
Quote:
OK. So maybe no laws were broken and there are no privacy concerns. But I am still unclear as to why Michele (or whoever) would release those e-mails with some attachments to a news organization (amiga-news.de) rather than sending them privately to Jens and say something like - here is the proof that Amiga Forever can distribute P96. I consider Michele a reasonable guy, but this looks odd. And again there could be something behind I do not fully understand. |
Perhaps you are asking the wrong questions.
Jens knew about the agreement all the time, he had seen those emails before he acquired P96. He even told Mike that he knew that Cloanto had that license for emulation purposes. Everything changed when Hyperion got involved, and Jens became an extension of Hyperion in the war against Cloanto. Tobias and Alexander made the mistake of signing a contract drafted by Ben Hermans (the P96 sale to Jens), in which they stated that there was no previous license, and now we have this mess. Another case of developers saying "I was so naive, I just signed". Jens could now even use this to ask his money back from Tobias and Alexander. Except that he had also told some people that he knew about the agreement before it was executed, so he can't really blame them.
As for disclosing that email exchange to the public, Mike had informed Tobias and Alexander before the footnote was added to the 2001 amigaforever.com news item. As required by law, private details and everything not related to the business part of the case was removed.
Ben Hermans is behind everything. Just like he registered the trademark "Amiga Forever", he also assisted with the license that Jens got for the "Commodore" logo, and in making Jens that appealing proposition of "you won't have to pay for any ROMs" (Amiga, or otherwise). They are challenging Cloanto on all fronts, just because Cloanto stood up and asked a question about the interpretation of the Settlement Agreement, which Hyperion had refused to answer.
And after doing all of this, both Ben and Jens depict in their respective (and very similar and coordinated) press releases how Cloanto is litigious. Crazy, isn't it? Imagine being a developer, and a belligerent lawyer registers your product name, and then says that you are "litigious"...Last edited by aria on 25-Feb-2019 at 05:27 AM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
gregthecanuck
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 10:58:21
| | [ #866 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 30-Dec-2003 Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada | | |
|
| @aria
Is that the sound of chickens coming home I hear? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 25-Feb-2019 12:05:43
| | [ #867 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6417
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @DiscreetFX
because of that I am excited about the RPi port of Aros
Of course 1 million is unrealistic, for that you would not only need a technical up to date platform including a modern desktop, you would also need unique software (or apps how it is called today) that makes it justifyable to use something amiganoid. With "modern desktop" I mean something that adapts to devices like smartphone or tablets including a new modern toolkit. That would be a lot of work (or money if somebody has to be paid). That is not realistic unfortunately. Modern features would include 64bit, SMP and full MP (for stability and security reasons). All three would break compatibility and 68k integration like petunia would be impossible (or at least need lots of extra work). Last edited by OlafS25 on 25-Feb-2019 at 12:22 PM. Last edited by OlafS25 on 25-Feb-2019 at 12:19 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 12:09:38
| | [ #868 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6417
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @aria
that is a risky strategy for both...
if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did.
That is not good business, that is harakiri
*shakes head* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
number6
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 14:17:08
| | [ #869 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11617
From: In the village | | |
|
| @aria
Quote:
in making Jens that appealing proposition of "you won't have to pay for any ROMs" (Amiga, or otherwise) |
An indemnification clause perhaps?
#6_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
DiscreetFX
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 25-Feb-2019 16:42:21
| | [ #870 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Feb-2003 Posts: 2538
From: Chicago, IL | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Since budget minded hobbyists are using the Amiga to relive their youth I'm not sure they want or even need features like SMP and full MP. The Amiga probability is not their only platform or main platform. Why not focus on the strengths the Amiga already has? Multitasking, speed, simplicity and nostalgia. _________________ Sent from my Quantum Computer. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
matthey
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 17:12:48
| | [ #871 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2321
From: Kansas | | |
|
| Quote:
that is a risky strategy for both...
if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did.
|
It could be good for AROS 68k. Maybe we will see better support for 1MiB MAPROM kickstarts in flash.
I don't really see much Amiga future for Jens anyway with 68k CPUs drying up and his reluctance to use FPGA 68k cores. If there was a 68k ASSP (ASIC marketed to 3rd parties) available that was compatible and affordable, I could see him buying 10,000 units for accelerators though.
Quote:
That is not good business, that is harakiri
*shakes head*
|
Amiga businesses have a lot in common in this regard. Maybe they can find some common ground after all.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Nonefornow
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 18:27:53
| | [ #872 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 29-Jul-2013 Posts: 339
From: Greater Los Angeles Area | | |
|
| It's beginning to look as if Hyperion feels like that the 2009 settlement agreement was getting to restrictive for them.
Maybe Hyperion is just trying to find ways to expand the business (I.E. OS 3.1.4) and as such is getting in conflict with Cloanto, which seems to be happy with that agreement.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Rob
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 20:33:20
| | [ #873 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6381
From: S.Wales | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
if it ends with Hyperion loosing all the base Jens will also loose the kickstart licenses and I could imagine that Cloanto will remember what Jens did. |
It would't be as bad for Jens as it would for Hyperion. While it's nice to have the ROM and OS files with your ACA+ or Buddha IDE they are not essential and these devices will happily sell without it. The A1200 Reloaded is a different matter since it requires at least of ROM to function. If no resolution could be found regarding licensing there are various methods they could employ to allow customers to easily install their own ROM file.
So Jens will suffer negligible damage to sales but it would have been better if hadn't got involved in Ben's political games. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
ribdevil
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 20:42:45
| | [ #874 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Jan-2010 Posts: 260
From: Vigo - Galicia - Spain | | |
|
| @all
Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto?
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
BigD
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 21:40:37
| | [ #875 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7416
From: UK | | |
|
| @ribdevil
Yeah, the Amiga company that made a profit! Who knew that was possible
Pigs have been flying in Italy since 1997! _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
megol
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 25-Feb-2019 22:02:02
| | [ #876 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 17-Mar-2008 Posts: 355
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @ribdevil
Better epitaph than that of Hyperion, known for doing exceptionally bad ports. Oh, and I think they did something OS related, guess it didn't work out as nobody ever heard of that. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
kolla
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 26-Feb-2019 4:58:50
| | [ #877 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Aug-2003 Posts: 3209
From: Trondheim, Norway | | |
|
| @ribdevil
Quote:
Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto?
|
Or the Cloanto that provided Commodore with code that was included in OS 3.1? Or the Cloanto that offered not just a paint program (not a drawing program), but a whole suite of software for Amiga, at very affordable prices, and continued to develop them long after for example EA quit the Amiga, and made sure they work with RTG? Or the Cloanto that made Personal Fonts Maker, that has been used to create tons of fonts? Or the Cloanto that took part in development of the PNG format, and who provided Amiga with a PNG datatype, for free, once the format was a fact? Or the Cloanto that sponsored and hosted numerous developer meetings for a free emulator, and provided the developers of a free emulator with Amiga hardware to help development of that free emulator?
You maybe should ask Toni Wilen, what he has to say, before you play wounded and butt-hurt on behalf of all UAE developers - it is getting very old!
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwwillen_en.php Quote:
- WinUAE is an important part of Amiga Forever from Cloanto. Do you receive money from them for your work? Do they contact you for adding such or such feature?
Technically and legally, anyone can sell WinUAE; there is nothing wrong with that. But yes, I have received Amiga hardware donations from Cloanto and they are far more useful than some money.
|
Last edited by kolla on 26-Feb-2019 at 05:01 AM. Last edited by kolla on 26-Feb-2019 at 05:00 AM.
_________________ B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 26-Feb-2019 8:43:46
| | [ #878 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6417
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @kolla
And Cloanto even supported aros kickstart replacement, direct competition for their products |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Petah
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 26-Feb-2019 13:28:37
| | [ #879 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 432
From: EU <3 ❤️ | | |
|
| Quote:
Cloanto? ah, that software house, that made a drawing program years ago, copied from another, and now makes a fantastic gui for a free emulator, that Cloanto? |
_________________ That'll Put Marzipan In Your Pie Plate, Bingo 💻 Pro-Amiga, 🌍 Pro-Globalism, 🍅 Pro-Vegan, 🛦 Pro-NATO & 🇪🇺 Pro-Joint EU Defense Intervention Initiative |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
BigD
| |
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc. assets Posted on 26-Feb-2019 14:01:57
| | [ #880 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7416
From: UK | | |
|
| @Petah
Ignoring the condescending attitude towards Cloanto. Small time Italian software specialists carve out a niche, keep their noses clean, keep their customers happy and end up basically owning ALL the Amiga IP!
Well done Cloanto
Everyone else, stay friends with Cloanto or risk your future business. Simple on paper _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|