@TRIPOS

Quote:

So far there has been no competitor managing to knock the G5 off of the PPC throne in performance.

Or power consumption.

What about T4240, obviously not in single core performance but has 3 times as many cores as the G5.

@Rob

As if Amiga users care about more cores... now.

@pavlor

I do, NOW, as I use Linux as well as NG OS' on the same hardware.
Which is why I want an X5000/40, not an X5000/20, why I have a Quad core G5, why I support the 4 core/eight thread T2080 laptop project, and can understand the argument about this processor.

And everyone WILL care if SMP ever gets adopted.

BUT the 970's cores still beat the T4240's core, and there is only so much threading needed for the average desktop.

What everyone seems to ignore in this discussion is that IBM invented the Power processor and the PPC, which explains why their last PPC still performs fairly well.
And the Freescale PPC we are comparing the 970 to weren't designed with desktop environments in mind, they were meant primarily for communications applications.

Last edited by Beans on 06-Aug-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@Rob

3 times the cores, 6 times the threads.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

3 times the cores, 6 times the threads.

I'd question whether desktop applications need a processor that can support 24 concurrent threads, except AMD is introducing processors that can support that and more this Fall.

And, as most of you are aware (because I'm VERY repetitive), I support the eight thread T2080 laptop project.

If we aren't increasing clock speed, then thread count is one way to increase performance.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@Beans

If absolute thread and clock speed is what you need, get a Power9 system

@WolfpackN64

Hasn't this thread run it's course? Next we'll be speculating over benchmark scores and FPU emulation speeds

If you want a great toy get the Vampire. If you want a OS4.x computer buy the Tabor. Easy. Unless the Tabor is further delayed in which case reconsider a X5000 or say hell with it and buy a stand alone Vampire. All options are better than a Mini SNES

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Or in case of enough money, buy both

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

WolfpackN64 wrote: @cdimauro Motorola had some problems, but their designs were still competitive. Some dual core 2Ghz G4 accelerator cards by Sonnet even beat out some G5 systems.

It's normal for G5 systems running at low frequencies. G4s, with their short pipelines, are much more efficient than G5s at similar or slightly higher frequencies.

G5s were designed for high clock rates, to compensate the effects of their much longer pipelines.
Quote:

Ultimatly, I think Apple wanted to focus picking and designing chips on the ARM architecture for their iPhones and went x86 as the easy way out (because the argument that Intel's chips were faster as a then 3 year olf PowerPC chip were just an excuse). Coincidentaly, their exit of PowerPC, buyout of PA Semi and the iPhone all came in a one year timeframe.

No, Apple/Jobs knocked at Intel's door first, for its iPhone. Unfortunately the Intel CEO of the time, Paul Otellini, refused to sell the upcoming Atom with very low margins. That was a BIG mistake, that he reveled some years ago.

For this reason Apple decided to go for the ARM way. And the rest is story.

@cdimauro

Funny how the fates of these companies can change with every decision. Intel was so complacent with it's Atom lineup anyway until recently.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: The numbers speak differently. You disputed my claim, I provided source (die-hard PC magazine).

I disputed the sentence, and reported clear data/facts about it.

Even PCWorld is a die-hard PC magazine. It was the leader, to be precise.

But PCWorld reported tests and concrete data that even my kid can look and judge how was the situation.

Words are cheap, pavlor, and an historian should know it.

In fact, I prefer facts.

But we know that you, as a fidei defensor, don't like them, trying to rebut just with plain, empty words.

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

WolfpackN64 wrote: @cdimauro Funny how the fates of these companies can change with every decision. Intel was so complacent with it's Atom lineup anyway until recently.

Sad but true. And we talking about the semiconductor leader...

@cdimauro

Oh Intel is twisting and turning in all kind of directions with Ryzen now. it's pathetic.

@Thread

Who cares? What are we supposed to say? Poor, poor Intel?!! It's not worth crying over missed opportunities for companies such as Intel and IBM; they're doing very well thank you. Also, for all the hype and success surrounding ARM Holdings, the truth is they still got bought out by the Japanese as a low cost post-BREXIT decision trophy! None of these companies deserve our sympathy and Apple is right to play them off against each other while developing their own low power chips behind the scenes (and in open view with the A-series). PA-Semi were inspiring as were Motorola in the Classic Amiga days but they're both dead and life is all about the bottom line!

The dancing MMX morons won the desktop... the British Acorn remnant (now Japanese plaything) won the mobile space and IBM held on in the server market! Yay!



I have a G4 in an iBook and it's slow. I can play Settlers II and use an old scanner with OS X Tiger! Great! Long live the G4

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: G5s were designed for high clock rates, to compensate the effects of their much longer pipelines.

And that's why the G5 ended up as the king of PPC, performance wise.


Quote:

Quote: Ultimatly, I think Apple wanted to focus picking and designing chips on the ARM architecture for their iPhones and went x86 as the easy way out (because the argument that Intel's chips were faster as a then 3 year olf PowerPC chip were just an excuse). Coincidentaly, their exit of PowerPC, buyout of PA Semi and the iPhone all came in a one year timeframe.

They bought PA Semi for its human resources, that later brought them their first in-house custom ARM core (of desktop class design), and which has improved a lot over the years.

I'm confident that Apple could (should they want to) build CPU's for desktops and laptops based on their current ARM core design. Package a few more cores in the chip, some more controllers like PCIe etc, soup up the clock to some 3+ GHz with active cooling, and they would suddenly be controlling their entire eco system in-house!

Microsoft is going ARM. And not some limited "creators edition" version for Raspberry Pi or some "Windows CE", no, the full consumer desktop version! And it will come with a x86->ARM JIT for existing x86 apps:

https://youtu.be/A_GlGglbu1U

Please note that this is a standard "old" processor, and not one of the new more souped-up ones, like for example (one of many):

Broadcom BCM58800

8 x A72 cores at 3GHz!
2MB L2 per core
8MB L3 shared
3 x DDR4-2400 controllers
PCIe 3 x16
USB 3.0
8 x SATA 3
100Gb Ethernet
Crypto and RAID support.

@BigD

Quote:

I have a G4 in an iBook and it's slow

I have a 1.42 GHz G4 in my iBook, and its not that slow (unless you're dumb enough to still be using OSX on one ).

IBM, they aren't doing that great. They sold off their foundries, they're desperate enough to be trying open platforms, and they went from making the cpus in the three leading gaming systems to no major contracts in the consumer market.

Intel? Who care? Never liked them, really hated the company when the P4s were being made, enjoying AMD's push to compete. Threadripper cpus will be available months before Intel introduces a product in response to them.

As to 'buy them both', I may just buy an X5000 and a Vampire4. Why not? They aren't competing products.
Its only money.

Hey, buy two!

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@BigD

Moral of the story, we should all just transition to RISC-V.

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote: I may just buy an X5000

You have repeated that phrase now for how many times a day, for how many years?

Let's face it, it's never going to happen. Please do us a favor and don't repeat that "I'm buying..." mantra anymore until you have really done it. Please?

@TRIPOS

Like you have a clue.

You expend huge amounts of time on pointless rants about the further development of Amiga OS3.X, when only Hyperion has the legal right to do that.

And in the meanwhile, many of us have moved on and could care less.

If I'm repetitive, you're just flat out boring, so instead of trading opinions why not just ignore each other?

@WolfpackN64

Interesting. Still, where are the cpus?

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Last edited by Beans on 06-Aug-2017 at 10:49 PM.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@Beans

So far, only an embedded board (called the HiFive1) is being produced. One company in particular, SiFive is producing IP cores (and seems to want to produce ASIC's as well).

https://www.sifive.com/