Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5640 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
60 crawler(s) on-line.
 6 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 sibbi:  16 mins ago
 Kremlar:  1 hr 24 mins ago
 ssolie:  1 hr 28 mins ago
 freak:  2 hrs 21 mins ago
 broadblues:  2 hrs 37 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  2 hrs 38 mins ago
 tomazkid:  2 hrs 46 mins ago
 evilFrog:  3 hrs ago
 Rob:  3 hrs 13 mins ago
 Samurai_Crow:  3 hrs 15 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  Hyperion is the end coming
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 Next Page )
PosterThread
Lou 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 21:15:54
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3958
From: Rhode Island

Microsoft traditionally doesn't supply hardware drivers for Windows.
Though it does include a great many supplied by 3rd parties and though lately has supplied 'generic' drivers with the case of W10.

Basically - if you create a piece of hardware, it's up to you to create drivers. This includes DMA. As someone who's built many a Windows machine over the years, when I ordered various motherboards (and every other thing I've connected to a PC), they came with a CD of drivers included that I had to install after installing the OS to get the OS to recognize and use all the hardware. So there is plenty of blame to point at A-EON for creating a product without drivers.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 21:31:38
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@Lou

Quote:
Microsoft traditionally doesn't


Surely you've read enough about who thinks who is responsible for drivers on AW.
The banter about ethernet serves as a prime example.

I'm not sure comparing to microsoft applies to our little world here.

#6


_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Aslak3 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 21:56:16
#103 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 266
From: Southampton, UK

@amigakit

Ooops. When I put @amigakit at the top of my post I was aiming my comments at the Amiga OS4 h/w and s/w vendors as a group.

MorphOS's approach to hardware support seems to be to add more devices when they /want/ to, and not because they have to, which is where OS4 is.

(I don't use either platform.)

_________________
Blog

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 22:05:10
#104 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2317
From: www.amigakit.com

@Aslak3

I was responding to your post:

Quote:
MorphOS people got this right and AmigaKit/A-Eon have got it totally wrong.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 22:24:47
#105 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2317
From: www.amigakit.com

@Lou

Quote:
Basically - if you create a piece of hardware, it's up to you to create drivers. This includes DMA.


Sorry, I do not think you have read my previous post: DMA is implemented as part of the core AmigaOS graphics library. A-EON does not have any source code access to this specific library. It is not A-EON's responsibility to work on code base that is not controlled or owned by A-EON. This is the reason a significant OS4 licence fee is paid to Hyperion for every X1000. X5000 or A1222 sold.

Quote:
So there is plenty of blame to point at A-EON for creating a product without drivers.


The only outstanding driver from the X1000 is the network driver. When the X1000 project was planned , the original A-EON Technology CVBA was told that all the drivers would be handled by Hyperion Entertainment. When A-EON Technology Ltd stepped in later on in 2012, it was clear that the ethernet driver was still not forthcoming and the RadeonHD driver would need significant investment. In the interests of expediating the process, a new contract was struck with Hyperion for the ethernet driver (August 2015) and further RadeonHD driver development was commissioned.

Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 11:37 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 10:55 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 10:50 PM.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
g01df1sh 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 22:40:25
#106 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1650
From: UK

@amigakit

Whats A-eon relationship like with Hyperion now. Wish Amiga OS could be developed all under one roof. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
A1200 Power Tower mediator Voodoo3
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 22:47:46
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11063
From: Norway

@g01df1sh

I think it's OK that different hardware vendors working on different drivers, right now I just wish we know more about what Hyperion is doing, silence make me worry, I don't won't annoy developers and beta testers they have signed NDA's, it be nice to know they are live and doing something. Lack of news or progress is bad sign.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
LiveForIt-Music
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 0:47:26
#108 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
Whats A-eon relationship like with Hyperion now. Wish Amiga OS could be developed all under one roof. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.


Why not anytime soon? Do you think Hyperion still has loads of debt? Do you think Hyperion magically found a way to make more money off any of their products recently? Do you think the slow down in AmigaOS 4 development is due to trying to reduce spending? Do you think Hyperion is currently wasting money on lawsuits? Do you think Hyperion is likely to seek the same source to bail them out again? Do you think that same source will ask for a buyout (at least majority ownership) instead of giving a bailout this time?

If I could predict the future, I would predict sooner rather than later but when is so difficult to predict.

Full disclosure: I have no inside knowledge or investment in A-eon, Hyperion, Cloanto or Amiga Inc. in all its forms. Please don't ban me for speculating.

Last edited by matthey on 14-Aug-2018 at 12:48 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 1:04:26
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
Full disclosure: I have no inside knowledge or investment in A-eon, Hyperion, Cloanto or Amiga Inc. in all its forms. Please don't ban me for speculating.


Considering the quality of communication between those parties mentioned, that should be everyone's sig.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AmeegaGuy 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 1:08:18
#110 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 59
From: Unknown

I recently re-read "Future Shock" and now I think this thread is an indicator that Hyperion produces the opposite of "Future Shock".

Instead of an increasing rate of change causing distress, Hyperion's decreasing rate of change is causing distress.

In both cases popcorn sales increase, kind of like a hedge fund. Enjoy!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kamelito 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 8:04:30
#111 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 684
From: Unknown

@Hans

If you did the DMA for the X1000 I suppose that it could be done for the X5000.
If you don't have access to the AmigaOS source code I suppose that you may use the SetMethod() function if the DMA code is contained in a function.

Last edited by kamelit0 on 14-Aug-2018 at 08:05 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hans 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 8:28:30
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4907
From: New Zealand

@kamelit0

Quote:

kamelit0 wrote:
@Hans

If you did the DMA for the X1000 I suppose that it could be done for the X5000.

I had working DMA code written by someone else, so most of the work was done already. I've got enough to do already, so how about someone else stepping up and handling it? Besides, I don't have an X5000.

Quote:
If you don't have access to the AmigaOS source code I suppose that you may use the SetMethod() function if the DMA code is contained in a function.

SetMethod() can't be used in this case, because the functions involved aren't part of the public API.

@BSzili
Quote:
Unfortunately the embedded (yes, I said the e-word!) CPUs used on most of the new boards offer very little in terms of expandability, so you can't just chuck in a supported sound card or NIC, and be done with it.
With the graphics card drivers it always boils down to the argument that "you can get it new", but for one person to keep up with the new AMD cards is a Sisyphean task. And that doesn't even include the development of new 3D APIs from scratch. Interestingly used cards were never an issue before in the "Amiga NG scene", but now Hans is perpetually stuck doing driver development for the new cards AMD releases. It is, what it is.

Before the NG Amiga scene, certain companies made Amiga graphics cards. Good luck doing that today. Even if you managed to get the graphics chips and design a board, I doubt you'd be able to continue buying the chips beyond the existing short GPU lifecycle.

I've seriously thought about designing my own GPU, which would give me control over its availability. However, designing a 3D GPU is NOT a spare-time project. I'd need to find a sizeable niche market to sell to, and a business model that would get me paid as I'm developing it. I wouldn't be able to compete with AMD/nVidia on performance or features, so my only selling point would be a GPU that's a lot easier to program. It's not feasible for me at present. Maybe later, when my business has grown...

The situation isn't that bad, though. We do have Warp3D Nova, and it has continued improving even as I work on supporting newer GPUs. Polaris support will be out soon, yes with Warp3D Nova drivers too.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 14-Aug-2018 at 08:30 AM.
Last edited by Hans on 14-Aug-2018 at 08:29 AM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
CosmosUnivers 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 8:44:36
#113 ]
Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2007
Posts: 84
From: Unknown

Quote:
Full disclosure: I have no inside knowledge or investment in A-eon, Hyperion, Cloanto or Amiga Inc. in all its forms. Please don't ban me for speculating. Considering the quality of communication between those parties mentioned, that should be everyone's sig.


The true purpose of Hyperion with the PPC is to rob all 68k coders they can to kill the 68k platforms...

I think (I hope) all users understand now, even with my lame franglais...


Last edited by CosmosUnivers on 14-Aug-2018 at 08:45 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 8:48:08
#114 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1199
From: Trondheim, Norway

Sometimes I get the impression that all people care about is "bling bling graphics" while it doesn't matter what the situation is for rest of the OS. Sigh.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 8:51:25
#115 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1199
From: Trondheim, Norway

@CosmosUnivers

Isn't that the purpose of anyone doing anything for Amiga these days?
Except you, of course?

Last edited by kolla on 14-Aug-2018 at 08:51 AM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BSzili 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 10:01:29
#116 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@Hans

I didn't say "before the amiga ng scene", I said "before *in* the amiga ng scene". I'm talking about the exact opposite of making custom built cards. I understand why A-Eon/AmigaKit wants to sell their machines with new cards, but that comes with a price.

_________________
I see the jimmies have been rustled.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hans 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 10:26:13
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4907
From: New Zealand

@BSzili

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
@Hans

I didn't say "before the amiga ng scene", I said "before *in* the amiga ng scene". I'm talking about the exact opposite of making custom built cards. I understand why A-Eon/AmigaKit wants to sell their machines with new cards, but that comes with a price.

Ah, okay.

I don't think Amiga dealers were into selling second-hand cards even early on. My A1-XE came with a new Radeon 9000 pro, as did other people's machines.

Pretty much all Amiga dealers want to sell machines with new cards. Imagine trying to run a computer store and having to source your graphics cards on eBay...

Added to that, Amiga users want new cards. At last year's AmiWest I was asked by someone where he could buy a new Southern Islands card, and I was hearing complaints about difficulty sourcing Southern Islands cards even before A-EON contacted me about Polaris support.

Either way, despite everything we are making progress with Warp3D Nova and graphics.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BSzili 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 10:33:20
#118 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@Hans

As I said I understand the HW dealer POW, that's not what I'm talking about here. I just don't buy (pun intended) that it's difficult to get old second hand Radeon HD cards.

_________________
I see the jimmies have been rustled.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hans 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 10:50:08
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4907
From: New Zealand

@BSzili

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
@Hans

As I said I understand the HW dealer POW, that's not what I'm talking about here. I just don't buy (pun intended) that it's difficult to get old second hand Radeon HD cards.

No, you specifically said A-EON/Amigakit. And just because you think we should stick to second hand cards doesn't mean everybody thinks that way.

Please give it a rest. I've learnt that my/our priorities will constantly be ripped into by armchair critics, but it's getting really tiresome. I've heard it all:
- The cards you support are too old, why are you working on X when we're struggling to buy the cards?
- Why are you working on newer cards when we features X, Y, & Z are more important?
- I have an old card that I want to use, why aren't there drivers for that?
- Why are you working on 3D? Video playback is more important
- Why are you working on X when 3D is critical?
- Bla bla bla

I get it, everyone has their own opinions, priorities and preferences. However, just because you think X is most important doesn't mean that everyone does.

I'll say it again (because it seems to get ignored): we are making progress with capabilities despite having to periodically support newer cards.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 14-Aug-2018 12:34:41
# ]

0
0

@amigakit

Quote:

The only outstanding driver from the X1000 is the network driver. When the X1000 project was planned , the original A-EON Technology CVBA was told that all the drivers would be handled by Hyperion Entertainment. When A-EON Technology Ltd stepped in later on in 2012, it was clear that the ethernet driver was still not forthcoming and the RadeonHD driver would need significant investment. In the interests of expediating the process, a new contract was struck with Hyperion for the ethernet driver (August 2015) and further RadeonHD driver development was commissioned.


So, this means that AmigaKit has taken over the development of the X1000 ethernet driver?

some earlier posts
Quote:

X-Dock will have DockApp


Does that mean dockies support?
Or is it yet another reinvention of the wheel type of thing.
If X-Dock will not be able to use the interactive dockies from AmiDock, X-Dock is superfluous.


And a question regarding the whole 3D/NOVA mess.

I do port stuff, some of which use OGL2/3 and shaders, right now, i *cannot* use them/port them, because i miss the drivers (and probably more).

What "exactly" do i need to get/buy to be able to provide and use OGL2/3 with shaders.
Drivers?
Programs?
Enhancer version?

 
     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle