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      /  Hyperion is the end coming
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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 7:41:56
#321 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9343
From: Unknown

@Argo

If you want open source AmigaOS, Cloanto certainly is not the party you should place your hope upon...

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:03:21
#322 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@pavlor

Why not? They have stated many time that they want AmigaOS to be open source.

(for all practical purposes it already is)

Last edited by kolla on 23-Aug-2018 at 08:12 AM.

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kas1e 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:15:44
#323 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3525
From: Russia

Dunno if it only me, but i never understand why anyone asking opensource os4.. To make AROS2, with the same minuses and pluses as aros have now ? To made forks ? To make more drama when devs (who will still stay) to argue what , when and how to do ?

Everyone have AROS right now, problems which have aros now, will have and os4 and morphos if opensource them. Some developers not like to work in team on their projects, some devs not like when others will "improve" their code. Those devs will loose motivation to works on it, and you will have less devs. Those ones who want opensourced aos already works on aros (for now almost none after deadwood and kalamate left)

Probably, ppls ask to opensource os4 just in sake of "i just want it", without doing anything with it, but waiting magic like some army of amiga developers will drop their deals and will start making future :)

Things is good as they now, all oses have what they should have. Of course will be good to change some bits (like, aeon to control when and how made os updates, as they serms those who hire and pay to devs fast and seems doing it right). But for sure opensourcing os4 will not make anything be better in end.

Last edited by kas1e on 23-Aug-2018 at 08:19 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:17:14
#324 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@hth313

Quote:
I am also very positive to this idea. The RPi would be an excellent choice for a low end reference platform to develop for. Linux at the bottom and something based on AROS on top of it.

I can definitely see that I would use it, something I cannot say that about either of the current NG offerings, sadly.


aros linux hosted is already working on rpi since years as far as im informed. at least an arm nightly is here:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/nightly.php

you can start right away.

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Argo 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:29:59
#325 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 311
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@pavlor

Nope, just stating what I think might be from what I have read.

If the Settlement Agreement goes and/or one of the parties fold so does the whole house of cards. So much for Amiga OS then. This is a battle of the corporate midgets. A paper tiger fight.

Hyperion just wants it all like they did before but that ended with the Settlement Agreement. I'm not really sure any of these companies are a going concern of an measure but on paper.

The outcome will sure be interesting though.

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Argo 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:40:26
#326 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 311
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@kas1e

Huh? That made no sense. I never said anything about open sourcing Amiga OS 4. If open source is Cloanto's goal, it would be an open source 3.1. Not sure how that would help any one. Not sure it would be much use to AROS at this point.
It's more likely that Cloanto in open sourcing Amiga OS 3.1 has a goal much like Hyperion with OS 4 and wanting all the trademarks and 1.3 ROM rights. Cloanto wants an Open Source Amiga OS 3.1 foundation that it controls.

Besides, Don't the Friedens own large chunks of OS 4 for their work on it?

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:41:49
#327 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9343
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
Why not? They have stated many time that they want AmigaOS to be open source.


Public statement costs nothing... irreversibly damage your own business model, that is another question.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 8:45:53
#328 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@kas1e

for the record im not one of the people who demand to open source os4.
but i think i need to address few things you said about aros:

Quote:
To made forks


im not aware of (live) aros forks. and im not aware of past aros forks except arix. in fact i have even compiled it lately and discussed if it was worth to remerge it upstream into the trunk, but in conclusion left it be, since there is aros hosted already. but not to forget that arix is still open on github, can still be forked and updated to latest aros source and developed further is an option not a handicap. also whatever was worth it, actually was remerged into the aros trunk since arix developers were aros developers at the same time.

Quote:
To make more drama when devs (who will still stay) to argue what , when and how to do ?


there always be argument, no matter open source or not. and this is good. there may be harsh words and there is disagreement now and then, but most of the time there is common work. there is still people working on aros and posting to aros dev ml and i value actually (almost) every single of these people and their opinion. the drama is usually with people who dont do any work, just comment on forums.

Quote:
Some developers not like to work in team on their projects, some devs not like when others will "improve" their code.


not everyone must be allowed to commit to a project main repo. if working in teams was impossible to arrange, there wouldnt be an os4 team as much as aros team. open source has nothing to do with it. to work in team you need to interact with others and subdue your ego to an extent, of course.

Quote:
Those ones who want opensourced aos already works on aros


i agree.

Quote:
(for now almost none after deadwood and kalamate left)


well, our resources are limited, more and more admittedly, apparently same as on alternative systems. but there is still good work being done. part of which im testing and forwarding to the repo.

also note that the bulk of work of people who actually left (well, it happens that they return from time to time) is still available, because it was open to start with. i doubt it will be the case with os4 code, am i right?

Quote:
Things is good as they now, all oses have what they should have. Of course will be good to change some bits (like, aeon to control when and how made os updates, as they serms those who hire and pay to devs fast and seems doing it right). But for sure opensourcing os4 will not make anything be better in end.


i agree with this conclusion. the public demanding to open source os4 needs to check their options better. and actually be ready to help with work they want to have done.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:14:48
#329 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@kas1e

Quote:
i never understand why anyone asking opensource os4...


To fix annoying bugs that "the officials" seems unable to fix.
To extend functionality and interoperability.
To evolve it beyond the often narrow goals of "the officials".

And most of all - learn what the heck is going on, why is the system behaving how it does?

Last edited by kolla on 23-Aug-2018 at 03:18 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:20:32
#330 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@kolla

Quote:
Why not? They have stated many time that they want AmigaOS to be open source.


Public statement costs nothing... irreversibly damage your own business model, that is another question.


Open source Amiga OS 3.1 would not at all damage Cloanto's business model, rather the contrary, it would allow their products to evolve into something even better.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:32:29
#331 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@wawa

Quote:

the public demanding to open source os4 needs to check their options better. and actually be ready to help with work they want to have done.


Except if you have worked on AmigaOS officially before, of course, then working on AROS would be to play into the Hyperion lawyers.

Last edited by kolla on 23-Aug-2018 at 03:33 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:32:51
#332 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3525
From: Russia

@kolla

No one will do it. Those unfixed annoing bugs in end non fixed by 2 reassons: no developers in interest (who still left in team) and busy with everything or they not -that- easy to fix. And we all known what will happens if open sources of os4: someone may look at it, then say blabla-easy-to-fix, but strangely will found no time to properly fix it. Excuses will be of any sort: not me, no time, house, wifes, childs, cat die, grandma cry or whatever else.

I mean realisticaly nothing will be fixed, just for a while there will be some drama and walls of text about how one should do good code.

Functionality will be then extendent as in aros: 50% will be in never finished state. Even if opensource of os4 in some ideal theory can make happy one of two devs, it still will be aros2.

As for learn, that good interest of course, but its all the same everywhere, that interest will help no one, as it with aros source of which open.

I mean there is no reassons why hyperion may even start to think about.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:35:07
#333 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@kas1e

Quote:

No one will do it.


Ask Olsen. The 68k version of Roadshow is ahead of the Roadshow that ships part of OS4 - he would very much like to see them i sync, I am sure.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 15:48:01
#334 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@kas1e

it will never be open sourced anyway, for legal reasons and because of lack of interest

What I (a little naive) proposed was to have a common foundation that is open source, a little like the fundament if you build a car

That foundation would consist of:
a common API
common driver systems
common components like USB or PCI support
common 3D subsystem
open source
and it should be portable and as far as possible not hardware dependent

all work together and contribute. On top of it there are different (closed) desktops

That would be best, no waste of resources, more developers contributing and chances that errors are fixed are higher because it is in interest of all involved. Unfortunately there is no interest for that, not in MorphOS camp and not at Hyperion. So everyone is continuing to do his own thing.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Aug-2018 at 03:48 PM.

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AP 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:04:25
#335 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@kas1e

Quote:

No one will do it.


Ask Olsen. The 68k version of Roadshow is ahead of the Roadshow that ships part of OS4 - he would very much like to see them i sync, I am sure.


I am not that sure. AFAIK Olsen has lost interest in AmigaOS4 long time ago. If he would be interested in improving Roadshow for AOS4 he could do it anyway, OpenSource or not.

Last edited by AP on 23-Aug-2018 at 04:15 PM.

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remotenemesis 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:18:50
#336 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 94
From: SF Bay Area, California

Unsurprisingly, this thread is absent any AmigaOS4 core developers talking about the cool new features they are working on.

I suspect the only active development right now is being conducted by A-EON at the driver and and library level.

At least somebody still cares.

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eliyahu 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:24:43
#337 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1880
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@remotenemesis

most of the 'core developers' for AOS4 no longer pay any attention to these forums given the level of abuse they've received. so you're not going to get any attention from them here anymore.

-- eliyahu

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:31:27
#338 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

what do you mean with "core" here?

The Frieden brothers?

I read some old threads where they were involved... one of the two seemed modest and sympathic, the other was very aggressive. Both sides escalated

On another thread someone asked if they could recompile Warp3D for 68k, answer of the "less politely" Frieden was "they could but they won´t. Buy AOS". I assume that the person asking did not not buy anything AOS related.

I cannot judge the programming abilities of those "core" developers but the manners and marketing was improvable to say it politely.

You cannot blame just one side

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:33:05
#339 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@remotenemesis

who is doing work on AOS at all now?

I do not know. And from outside there is not much activity recogniseable

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 23-Aug-2018 16:38:08
#340 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 95
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:
most of the 'core developers' for AOS4 no longer pay any attention to these forums given the level of abuse they've received.


Whether that is true or not I do not know. But Hyperion has their own website where they can provide read only information to plebeian masses if they care to do so. There are even comment disabled developer blogs if I am not mistaken but these also have fallen silent. Which brings us back to the thread subject.

I think maybe with all the legal action maybe Hyperion wants to be another SCO.

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