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   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
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PosterThread
bison 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 20-Nov-2020 17:36:51
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1715
From: N-Space

@thread

IBM POWER9 CPUs Need To Flush Their L1 Cache Between Privilege Boundaries Due To New Bug

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 21-Nov-2020 13:29:53
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11487
From: Norway

@bison

Well its only problem if you have more then one user on the system, or have programs running in different privilege levels.

On Amiga there is only one user level and its “ROOT”, any program can do anything unless programed not to fu*k up your system.

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Rose 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 21-Nov-2020 13:35:56
#63 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@thread

IBM POWER9 CPUs Need To Flush Their L1 Cache Between Privilege Boundaries Due To New Bug


Considering how hard Power 9 got hit by spectre and meltdown this is REALLY bad.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 21-Nov-2020 13:56:35
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11487
From: Norway

@Rose

It can be solved by more intelligent scheduler, if scheduler did not flush L1 all time but only when task is executed by a different user, the task can be sort by user, limiting this problem.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Nov-2020 at 01:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Nov-2020 at 01:57 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Nov-2020 at 01:57 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 23-Nov-2020 13:22:38
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3462
From: Unknown

@bison

https://twitter.com/carlosedp/status/1330272234276081671

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bison 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 25-Nov-2020 19:42:07
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1715
From: N-Space

@AmigaBlitter

More benchmarks:

The Performance Impact To POWER9's Eager L1d Cache Flushing Fix

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SHADES 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Nov-2020 11:41:17
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 660
From: Melbourne

@matthey

" only a few Amiga users would buy it at this price, especially without SMP and 64 bit support in AmigaOS. Higher quality and performance options can easily push this price over $2000 U.S."

Couldn't agree more.
Why does the OS "need" to be proted to this right away.

I'd much prefer it get ported to ARM. 8GB-DDR4 $80 RPi

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Fl@sh 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Nov-2020 14:09:50
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 196
From: Napoli - Italy

@SHADES

RPi porting would be a great goal, but it's another cpu architecture and this requires too much work and money to pay developers.
Blackbird could be even a nice choice because it's completely opensource and POWER9 is mostly compatible with OS4 core and software.
It's even many times faster than any RPi, price is near to a new Amiga X5000 but much faster and has a better support.

Maybe AEON could look at one of these boards and customize it with a special bios to boot OS4

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BigD 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Nov-2020 17:56:18
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5418
From: UK

@Fl@sh

Unless A-EON can bring the A1222 Plus to market and make a success of it this feels like the end of the road for the AmigaOne experiment! It's currently easier to get hold of a PS5 than it is the A1222 and that's saying something considering this thing was announced in 2013!

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BigD 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Nov-2020 17:57:37
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5418
From: UK

@Fl@sh

Plus what makes you think Hyperion want another porting project? They've got their hands full with legal work and AmigaOS 3.1.4!

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Fl@sh 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Nov-2020 22:31:01
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 196
From: Napoli - Italy

@BigD

This happens when you want reinventing the wheel again and again.
I'm writing about an hardware already present on the market, powerful and 100% linux supported.
You can implement OS4 virtualizing it via QEMU+KVM, like Alexander Graf have just done with Windows on Apple Silicon today, or build a new AmigaOS without legacies inside.
Legacies are intended about technical aspect like Memory Protection, Multicore support, etc.. and legal aspect without Hyperion and Cloanto wars inside.
If the name is the problem simply change name and go further.. we need to be more pragmatic here

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BigD 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 28-Nov-2020 0:22:44
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5418
From: UK

@Fl@sh

Quote:
I'm writing about an hardware already present on the market, powerful and 100% linux supported.


Great I'm glad you're excited just don't expect Hyperion to port anything to it Also, in case you haven't noticed there simply is not enough general interest/developers attached to the platform to create ANY sustainable ecosystem based on thousands never mind the logical maximum user-base of a hundred people buying a Power 9 motherboard!

The Tabor has more chance of success than this BlackBird has of reinvigorating the platform.

Last edited by BigD on 28-Nov-2020 at 12:25 AM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 28-Nov-2020 14:13:19
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1311
From: CRO

@BigD

Tabor is DOA.
It took them nearly 8 years from first announcement to sales to customers. Software/drivers still seem WIP, people should remember the promises with X1000(announced 11 years ago) and X5000 that are still not 100% supported. I would avoid anything that Hyperion has their hands on, they're clueless/deceitful and also probably dead man walking.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 28-Nov-2020 at 02:13 PM.

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BigD 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 28-Nov-2020 14:51:21
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5418
From: UK

@WolfToTheMoon

... and yet the A1222 plus HAS drivers and Hyperion on board. That is not true of the BlackBird board plus the ONLY profit margin seems to come from the hardware unless Hyperion make the AmigaOS developers work for free like OS3.1.4!

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 28-Nov-2020 17:16:50
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1311
From: CRO

@BigD

What does exactly having Hyperion on board brings to the project... Except a big weight dragging it down.
Trevor owns the kernel and he seems the only one paying developers to try to keep the ship afloat and write missing drivers and software in general.

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Rob 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 28-Nov-2020 21:38:02
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5956
From: S.Wales

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
What does exactly having Hyperion on board brings to the project....


A valid license and access to the OS4.x componets derived from the 3.1 sources.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 29-Nov-2020 0:00:55
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1311
From: CRO

@Rob

Access by whom and for what purpose?
No paid developers, do not own the kernel or most of the components of the OS, engaged in a costly lawsuit(s), run by a questionable character, no new products, no new updates, no income...
It's dead, Jim.

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BigD 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 29-Nov-2020 3:15:30
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5418
From: UK

@WolfToTheMoon

So you’re not interested in a legal licensed OS then? Presumably you want AROS on this $1200 Power9 board??? Why not just run in on a Intel PC? Plus buying the hardware doesn’t actually support an Amiga company! I’m not sure I understand the need for another PPC/Power9 machine unless you want Hyperion to port AmigaOS to it or to run MorphOS at the least but old Mac suffice for that!! Odd thread

... or perhaps you’re just here to stir and you have no interest in acquiring a Power9 machine, using AmigaOS/MorphOS or in supporting the remaining Amiga companies?

Last edited by BigD on 29-Nov-2020 at 03:20 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Nov-2020 at 03:16 AM.

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Fl@sh 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 29-Nov-2020 9:19:57
#79 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 196
From: Napoli - Italy

Most easy way to use OS4 with Raptor BlackBird is QEMU, no recompilation, no porting, no hyperion and others companies involved in neverending story.
What I wish really to this board is a new os based on Amiga microkernel, name really doesn't matter. It should be source code retro compatible with OS4/MOS/ and why not OS3 sources, letting recompilation of old programs with small or no changes to code.

The heavy cost of the hardware is ok considering you have a modern fully open source supported board, useful for all kind of jobs under linux.
If you think about Amiga os3 hardware or even X5000 you will agree cost/performance is easily won by blackbird board.
A lot of amiga users are spending moneys in something not really useful, I consider it a fetish obsession in some extreme cases
I look a lot of people running their beautiful OS3 workbenchs with awesome icons and beautiful WB skins, doing exactly nothing with it.
..for OS3 and 68k UAE/WinUAE IMHO are the best choices to run old games.

Why not x86? I agree with x86 Amigaos but it's more difficult to port existing code, at this point much better to go on an RPi or similar gadget switching to ARM and bypassing at all X86.

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Everblue 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 29-Nov-2020 10:49:36
#80 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 643
From: Amigaland

While I would love for Amiga OS4 to move on, in some way or another, I think the project is dead and buried. I understand that Amiga OS4 will probably never come out of beta, and most probably never support all the full features offered by the X1000 and X5000 machines. This is a pity because I, like many, would love an OS which can replace Windows as my daily machine, or at least, an Amiga machine that can be used for daily use. I have been looking forward for an A1222 for years now, even had a pre-order which I cancelled, as it dawned on me that probably it will never come into fruition. I would love to eat those words back though.

I think that at this point in time, only MorphOS stands a chance of achieving the above, and is only possible after it is released for x86 or ARM (MorphOS for Raspberry Pi would be insane). I do not know when this will happen, or if at all. I am not trying to drag the thread into MorphOS vs Amiga OS but simply evaluating the situation.

Lastly, it has been proven over and over again that the biggest interest in today's Amiga scene lies with classic related projects, including newer versions of Workbench. So I understand how companies, including Hyperion, are looking at classic stuff instead of Amiga OS.

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