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BigD 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 12:00:48
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7332
From: UK

@geen_naam

Quote:
So what...


Because it further erodes market confidence and makes investment in AmigaOS NG seem foolhardy when the license holders are in such a volatile situation! That’s why!

I also love the way the A1222 Plus delay is now considered a good thing to allow the court case to be finished before release!

Last edited by BigD on 07-Jun-2021 at 12:01 PM.

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kamelito 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 12:13:58
#182 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

They probably don’t wanna help Hyperion buy given them money for their licenses so they can die, maybe, but Hyperion is probably making a lot more with 3.1.4 and 3.2.

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amigang 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 12:22:23
#183 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2031
From: Cheshire, England

@number6

Well i still have a license for AmigaOS4.2 when ever it arrives according to my X1000 docs, I wonder if I could trade it for a T-shirt.

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BigD 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 12:35:15
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7332
From: UK

@kamelito

And that's a big gamble if Hyperion survives!

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cgutjahr 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 14:55:31
#185 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

What OEM business did that contract cover anyways? Maybe Mincea could comment on that.

Costel is replying to another poster: somebody stating there are disagreements regarding the OS4 license. The context makes it crystal clear Costel's "OEM contract" is referring to the OS4 license. We don't know what (if anything) else that contract covers, but we do know it covers OS4.

Quote:

So what if they decided to wait and see what's happening with the lawsuit?

They didn't, unless all the behind-the-scenes mumbling is completely off. Both sides seem to be posturing a lot ("would never do business with *that* guy again"), which might just be an attempt at getting a better deal - but it's been six months now. And Matthew is now publicly announcing he will not rely on "other entities' code".

But given the last 20 years of happy endings and always achieving the best possible outcome, I completely understand that people are inclined to be optimistic about this. So let's hope for the best - after all, they can't be that dumb, right?

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cgutjahr 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 16:35:26
#186 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

I forwarded your question, but I'm not sure what you're expecting. I doubt he's going to list details from the contract, and we know A-EON can no longer distribute AmigaOS 4.

If you don't want to take my word for it, just ask anybody behind the scenes. They would never say anything in public, but private conversations are a different matter.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 17:07:12
#187 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@thread

A-EON allegedly no longer has an AmigaOS 4 license.

english version


OH NO!!!

A non-existing company denies a spaghetti-code OS built on some other OS they stole, to another company making underpowered hardware based on a dead-end architecture!

HIGHLY HYPHENATED TRAGEDY UPON US!

/MEGA

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cgutjahr 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 17:28:18
#188 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

I'm just a mortal. I don't know anyone from behind the scenes

Yeah sure - a driver developer who's not desperately asking around behind the scenes for basic information he needs to do his job. That sounds totally convincing

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kamelito 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 18:27:47
#189 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

AEON and Amigakit should work with the MOS Team to deliver an AmigaOS 4.1 clone (binary and source compatible) based on ExecSG, and their gfx drivers etc and forget about Hyperion but I suppose they just hope for Cloanto to win.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 18:53:52
#190 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@kamelito

Yes friend Kamelito,

and it will sell a lot in Israelstine.

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matthey 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 21:21:27
#191 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2083
From: Kansas

kamelito Quote:

AEON and Amigakit should work with the MOS Team to deliver an AmigaOS 4.1 clone (binary and source compatible) based on ExecSG, and their gfx drivers etc and forget about Hyperion but I suppose they just hope for Cloanto to win.


A-Eon/AmigaKit could license MorphOS PPC for PPC hardware as the default install if losing Amiga branding. I don't see a compelling reason to use ExecSG on PPC as it would likely break compatibility with all AmigaOS and MorphOS PPC software. MorphOS is likely more focused on x86-64 support where they may have more advanced and tested SMP support already although it breaks compatibility like AROS x86-64 with SMP. PPC is dead end not only because of lack of competitive hardware but also because of lack of SMP support in AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS.

A-Eon/AmigaKit could "work with" Amiga Corporation to put parts of AmigaOS 3.1, the Enhancer Software and ExecSG together as a new AmigaOS release. There would be a lot of work to bring compatibility with AmigaOS 4 PPC but not as much for an AmigaOS 68k release. It would be preferable if Hyperion AmigaOS IP could be obtained and developers were on board.

Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2021 at 09:44 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2021 at 09:30 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2021 at 09:22 PM.

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amigadave 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 6:38:53
#192 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1732
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@thread,

My prediction is that Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment will become even more of a "poison pill" for the Amiga community, win or lose in the current court case. I believe he will eventually withhold any IP he has control over, just to spite the Amiga community, because he didn't make any profit from the IP, and won't make any profit from it in the future. Once he realizes that, unless he wins the court case and gains control over the Amiga 68k assets and can make at least a meager amount of income from it in the future, I believe he will act like a spoiled child, and try to screw the community before he leaves it. Of course this is just my own prejudice opinion, based on my own total lack of respect for the man. That opinion is based on everything I have read and heard about Ben over the past 20+ years.

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amigadave 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 7:06:11
#193 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1732
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@thread,

Since only beta versions of AmigaOS4 for the Tabor/A1222 were sent out to the beta test team members, I wonder if A-Eon were required to pay a license fee for those beta OS4 releases sent out? It would not make sense to me to be required to pay a license fee for a beta version of an unfinished OS, when I would think the beta testers "should" be working for Hyperion Entertainment, to facilitate the completion of the port of OS4 to the Tabor/A1222 hardware. In our backward community though, I will not be surprised if I find out that the beta testers are working for A-Eon, not Hyperion, and that Hyperion is requiring some kind of payment for unfinished work.

I guess that has nothing to do with the license contract expiring, since even if zero license fees have been collected for the Tabor/A1222, the agreed upon license fee agreement would still expire, and need to be renegotiated, where Hyperion could ask for the same amount, more, or less, for each license. It is interesting that A-Eon is reported to have shown zero interest in speaking with Hyperion regarding the expiring contracts, but perhaps A-Eon is so frustrated with Hyperion's inability to complete the port of AmigaOS4 to the Tabor/A1222, that they feel it is useless to discuss a license agreement extension, until Hyperion can demonstrate that they have the ability to complete the port. That does not explain the contract for the X5000, but perhaps A-Eon has gotten smart, and is using their heads to pressure Hyperion to complete the port for the Tabor, by threatening to switch to using MorphOS for PPC as their primary OS, unless Hyperion can finally finish the port for the Tabor/A1222. I'm sure that is not what AmigaOS4 users would want to hear, but I'm also sure that the MorphOS Dev. Team could, if motivated with payment for services, complete a port of MorphOS to the Tabor/A1222, AND provide at least basic graphics drivers for MorphOS, that support a few of the newer video cards that are currently supported by AmigaOS4's Enhancer Pack. Currently, the MorphOS Dev. Team has no real incentive to do any work on better support for X5000 systems, and has zero incentive, or intention to ever support the Tabor/A1222.

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matthey 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 8:59:05
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2083
From: Kansas

@amigadave
Cloanto/Amiga Corporation could also make a deal with the MorphOS team to re-badge MorphOS as AmigaOS if the Amiga parties win a summary judgement. This would allow the morphed AmigaOS to be available on more modern hardware with more modern features faster and make Hyperion's old AmigaOS 4 upgrades practically worthless (if Ben tries to withhold AmigaOS 4). A-Eon/AmigaKit may not be too happy with this move though as AmigaOS x86-64 with SMP could be out before the Tabor is released. Hyperion, A-Eon and AmigaKit seem content to wait and see the outcome of the lawsuit which could destroy their businesses.

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Anonymous 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 11:36:35
# ]

0
0

@matthey

I doubt the MorphOS devs would want to get into that quagmire, and I don't know if Cloanto would be that interested in the moribund PPC market.

Far from "destroy their businesses", the end of OS4 would be doing AmigaKit a favour in my opinion. Given the posts about service I've read recently and my own experience - and with the greatest respect to them - I think they're spreading themselves too thinly and would be better focusing on their core business. Is OS4 hardware a sustainable business or a hobby project for the people involved? I've always imagined it's the latter.

Of interest to me is what happened if a liquidator takes over control of Hyperion and starts selling off assets. What source code do they actually own that could be sold off, either to Cloanto or to community crowdfunding? OS 3.2 is a lovely piece of work, but what is the status of that code if Hyperion went under?

Last edited by clebin on 08-Jun-2021 at 11:37 AM.

 
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BigD 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 16:44:30
#196 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7332
From: UK

@Mimifan (edit: some guy in July 2019 started this thread he must have been a prophet )

Quote:
Goodbye Amigaone


...and thanks for all the fish!

(Ed: Sorry for the hurt I caused geen_naam by implying he started/resurrected this thread but the resurrection was by number6 (Ed. It is a small 'n' let's not upset him too) and we are oh so glad that he did aren't we boys and girls? )

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jun-2021 at 05:28 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jun-2021 at 05:26 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 20:19:00
#197 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2083
From: Kansas

clebin Quote:

I doubt the MorphOS devs would want to get into that quagmire, and I don't know if Cloanto would be that interested in the moribund PPC market.


There wouldn't be a quagmire if MorphOS became the new AmigaOS. Amiga Corporation could license the "Amiga" name as "Amiga MorphOS" right now without winning the lawsuit. Yes, the PPC market is not very interesting but "Amiga MorphOS" for x86-64 with SMP, 64 bit addressing, memory protection and process isolation may be more interesting. I expect Amiga branding would help "Amiga MorphOS" x86-64 but the introduction on the desktop could be challenging at 79€ while lacking software support.

clebin Quote:

Far from "destroy their businesses", the end of OS4 would be doing AmigaKit a favour in my opinion. Given the posts about service I've read recently and my own experience - and with the greatest respect to them - I think they're spreading themselves too thinly and would be better focusing on their core business. Is OS4 hardware a sustainable business or a hobby project for the people involved? I've always imagined it's the latter.


I think Trevor hoped that PPC Amigas would sell well enough that production could be ramped up allowing prices to be reduced. This dream didn't look so far fetched until Apple bought P.A. Semi and ARM caught up with PPC in performance. Also, the initial niche market prices of the x1000 and x5000 systems (including AmigaOS 4) was too high to sell enough systems to ramp up production. Maybe the Tabor A1222 would have been more successful if the CPU had used the more compatible e500mc cores and AmigaOS 4 PPC development cost was cheaper and perhaps could have been shared with AmigaOS 3 68k development to lower the cost of the AmigaOS. The A1222 project has turned into a nightmare for A-Eon.

Matthew at AmigaKit has openly been a supporter of the 68k. Ben at Hyperion decided he liked the 68k AmigaOS more than the PPC AmigaOS when he realized he could make more money from the larger market and cheaper development costs. Michele Battilana at Cloanto has made most of his Amiga profit from the 68k market. That only leaves Trevor who wants mid to high performance desktop Amigas and thinks PPC is the way to get there?

clebin Quote:

Of interest to me is what happened if a liquidator takes over control of Hyperion and starts selling off assets. What source code do they actually own that could be sold off, either to Cloanto or to community crowdfunding? OS 3.2 is a lovely piece of work, but what is the status of that code if Hyperion went under?


I think A-Eon/AmigaKit could also be in the bidding for any liquidated Hyperion IP assets but the assets would be less valuable to them without first obtaining licenses from Amiga Corporation. If the Amiga parties win a summary judgement then Amiga Corporation controls the Amiga brand. Hyperion could survive the lawsuit loss if they don't have to pay back revenue from the 68k AmigaOS but would likely be out of the picture as far as AmigaOS development. They may retain some AmigaOS IP developed on top of AmigaOS 3.1 but it would be in their best interest to sell what they are not forced to give to the Amiga parties for payment of AmigaOS 4. Some of the IP and source code used by Hyperion for the AmigaOS are only licensed and may not be transferable or usable on certain architectures. For example, Hyperion claims to own Reaction which is integrated into the AmigaOS so are they required to give Reaction to Amiga Corporation or just the source code which then requires a license from Hyperion. P96 being integrated into the AmigaOS 4 graphics.library is another potential problem which may require an iComp license and not only for the PPC this time. The RoadShow is likely licensed from Olsen and maybe only for the PPC. The IP and source code rights could be a legal mess long after lawsuits and/or liquidations are done.

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Kronos 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:02:10
#198 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2581
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:


There wouldn't be a quagmire if MorphOS became the new AmigaOS.


Amiga(OS) is the quagmire so no no and no again don't even start this nonsense!

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matthey 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:52:04
#199 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2083
From: Kansas

Kronos Quote:

Amiga(OS) is the quagmire so no no and no again don't even start this nonsense!


The quagmire comes from too many businesses being involved with the Amiga, especially the AmigaOS. They are stepping on each others feet instead of working together in synchronous harmony. They duplicate efforts. They waste money consulting lawyers for external cooperation and contracts. They waste more money on lawyers when there are disagreements. They are slow to act because of all the communication needed and they can block each others progress.

Cloanto/Amiga Corporation, Hyperion, A-Eon, AmigaKit

"Amiga MorphOS" would simplify the situation as there are fewer entities involved. Amiga Corporation may want to develop the Amiga brand organically rather than through licensing after putting it back together which would be simpler yet but more internal work.

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Kronos 
Re: Goodbye Amigaone
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 22:11:36
#200 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2581
From: Unknown

@matthey

There are the exactly right amount of "entities" involved in MorphOS as it is right now.

None and I repeat none of those involved with TheName(tm) right now would benefit it, all they would do is bring destructive forces into play.

Let that ship sink.

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