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      /  Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
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Hypex 
Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 13:28:54
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

Hello.

I've noticed that, as well as general web browsing, the Amiga platform also suffers with email. It's just taken longer to affect emails. Initially, lack of HTML support would have been one of the first show stoppers, then later actually setting up a client so it worked.

Right now I've been facing a problem that is has been forcing me to use web mail. And even then it doesn't always solve the problem.

I've found, from YAM with my ISP email, that emails sent to GMail and Yahoo accounts are rejected. And possibly others. At times I send a document which is usually banned immediately. It becomes annoying when I need to duplicate an email and resend it. I've had Yahoo email for years and recently GMail for my phone.

I've sent an email with YAM to my Yahoo account as a test and noticed it rejected it. But not in an obvious way. Usually the rejection email that bounces back will be sitting in the Yahoo spam folder. Which is strange and annoying as it should have been bounced back to where it was sent from.

At first there were errors that the user could not be verified and did not follow policy. But the email detailing the error was incomplete, leading to a Yahoo page about the subject, which hardly explained it any more. I was able to give my email clearance so I could send myself emails. But I can't do that for other people.

What won't work now is sending a document. In particular, RTF. Kinda ironic that a format invented by Microsoft and used by both OSX and Amiga alike, is now rejected as an attachment. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, that a useful non-binary cross platform format has now become useless. Microsoft brings the computer world together then realises a binary Windows specific format better suits there interests.

Now, when I send an RTF, it gets rejected on the grounds that it contains malware. What!? It obviously didn't check the file. A 2KB RTF file exported from Wordworth is certainly not malware. It doesn't contain any script. What a stupid virus checker. I'm starting to think the computer world is becoming like Homer Simpson, and getting stupider and stupider, every year,

Even sending from Yahoo doesn't fix this. I tried sending an RTF from Yahoo mail and it also rejected it. Now, this really is the mail server on the other end and its spam filter. But, RTF is now banned. If I need to resend an email Yahoo is useless compared to YAM. I can't see any way to resend it. It's easy in YAM, in Yahoo I must type it all again.

The only positive is that I can use Yahoo mail from Odyssey and it works. For logging in I can avoid stuffing about with stupid traffic light pictures. And confirm log in on my phone, since I installed the Yahoo app.

So, with all these problems mounting. Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client? Both for sending a simple emails and documents?

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simplex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 13:56:03
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 776
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Hypex

Quote:
I'm starting to think the computer world is becoming like Homer Simpson, and getting stupider and stupider, every year,

That's been obvious to me for a couple of decades now. As just one example: 20 years ago is about the time it became clear that Amiga wasn't coming out of its funk anytime soon, that C++ was becoming the dominant systems programming language, and that I was entering graduate school for a degree in mathematics. (Long story, not worth relating, but it was evidence the world was getting stupider.)

Anyway, if I read your post correctly, the problem isn't YAM or SimpleMail but that Yahoo! and Google have decided to reject RTF files. That's probably because someone somewhere noticed that .rtf files have been used as virus vectors, and the easiest way to prevent such a virus is to forbid RTF attachments.

You mention Microsoft's invention of RTF; the linked webpage reports that Microsoft themselves recommend forbidding RTF's as attachments.

I seem to recall that one mailer I used once forbade even JPG attachments, at least for a while.

Last edited by simplex on 29-Oct-2019 at 02:00 PM.
Last edited by simplex on 29-Oct-2019 at 02:00 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 13:56:16
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 631
From: Unknown

@Hypex

RTF has been used as attack vector for nearly decade.

http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2010-3333 was probably first one in the wild.

Great example of "If you think that something is safe, it doesn't mean that it is."

@Simplex
Quote:
I seem to recall that one mailer I used once forbade even JPG attachments, at least for a while.


Take a wild guess why... https://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/perrun.shtml

Last edited by Rose on 29-Oct-2019 at 02:01 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 14:20:25
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Proper e-mail handling is yet another reason to look at MorphOS:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12218&forum=9

(Look towards the end of the thread, obviously, for the most recent level of functionality and features)

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AP 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 15:30:01
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 423
From: Vienna/Austria

Maybe this is an alternative?

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=network/email/sylpheed.lha

It requires AmiCygnix.

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K-L 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 15:56:40
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1336
From: Oullins, France

@Thread

I've just started to use SImpleMail again on AmigaOS 4.1.

It is configured with Gmail to receive the mails but with my ISP to send them.

I'm using GMail POP configuration.

I can send lots of mails with attachments without any trouble. There is a slight problem beteween my ISP and Yahoo but nothing coming from SimpleMail.

Hypex : from your description, it seems you misconfigured your SMTP section.

I tried iris MorphOS form some weeks but it still not as "simple" as SimpleMail ans still lacks features (and with Gmail it has a bug since sent messages are also saved in drafts on Gmail).

So back to SimpleMail with all its features and simplicity. Once configured with filters, it's a charm to use (there is a nasty MUI Bug preventing creation of new filters and news contacts).

The only thing I'd like to have working with SimpleMail is imap but unfortunately, it is still very unstable at the moment.

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Xenic 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 16:02:20
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1237
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Hypex
Over a year ago my ISP informed me that they were switching IMAP and the POP3 server would be deactivated. They did provide the option of switching to a secure POP3 port. I switched to the secure POP3 port and set YAM to use SSL/TLS which has been working ever since. I switched POP3 ports at GMail & Yahoo and started using YAM SSL/TLS. Only the latest dev version of YAM works because it supports the latest AmiSSL. At that time both GMail and Yahoo had email settings to allow email from unrecognized email clients which they considered insecure. The problem was that everytime I used the GMail & Yahoo servers with YAM I got a warning email stating that a suspicious email was received. Since Verizon bought Yahoo the email settings no longer even have a setting to allow suspicious emails to be downloaded in your email client.

I think YAM will become useless if the devs don't stop focusing on minor changes to the MUI libraries that YAM uses and focus on implementing IMAP and possibly spoofing as accepted email clients. I currently have no problems sending emails to GMail addresses.

P.S. If you google 'RTF mime' you will find that there are several MIMES in use for RTF. You might try manually setting a different MIME for RTF in YAM (such as text/rtf).

Last edited by Xenic on 29-Oct-2019 at 04:06 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 18:07:24
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1037
From: Unknown

@Xenic

Quote:
I switched to the secure POP3 port and set YAM to use SSL/TLS which has been working ever since. I switched POP3 ports at GMail & Yahoo and started using YAM SSL/TLS.


You're lucky. Here from the AROS side, we haven't AmiSSL at all, nor people willing to build it for AROS as well.

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simplex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 29-Oct-2019 19:15:32
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 776
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Rose

Oh, I know that there was a period where pretty much any file could be turned into an attack vector on Microsoft Windows. (The registry implementation was such a great job, wasn't it?) My point is more that the solution is (a) stupid, and (b) not uncommon.

Last edited by simplex on 29-Oct-2019 at 07:16 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 15:39:52
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

@simplex

Quote:
As just one example: 20 years ago is about the time it became clear that Amiga wasn't coming out of its funk anytime soon


Unfortunately the Amiga didn't have it's groove thing on in this case and it was only a case of bad funk.

Quote:
That's probably because someone somewhere noticed that .rtf files have been used as virus vectors, and the easiest way to prevent such a virus is to forbid RTF attachments.


I suppose it would be. But then, why not target ASCII? XML, having a structure, would also then be at risk. PDF files have ASCII, they are next.

I'd like to see an example of one of these files. Which I've read cause a stack overflow. Wouldn't it need to be large for that? Well, if a plain ASCII file which RTF is built from, can hack into a computer without even needing macros; then it logically folllows that all ASCII files could hack a computer. And the Windows world is F'ed.

This link which follows from the one you linked, ironically, says RTF files have a lower virus risk.

https://office-watch.com/2013/what-the-rtf/

Quote:
You mention Microsoft's invention of RTF; the linked webpage reports that Microsoft themselves recommend forbidding RTF's as attachments.


Since they screwed up an ASCII parser so that somehow loading in a text file causes machine code to execute. Seriously? Sounds like a back door to me.

What are the Mac users to do now? Was Apple forced to abandon RTFD in TextEdit? They already lost Keynote when the Mac users started using Powerpoint.

Quote:
I seem to recall that one mailer I used once forbade even JPG attachments, at least for a while.


I'm not surprised. Renaming an EXE as a JPG or another is the best way to run an email virus. A program that lacks even basic error checks is not to be trusted and in my non-expert opinion is totally unprofessonal. It's popular to rename an EXE or VBS or JS or what ever as DOCX. Didn't notice BAT yet. But if the same trick works for years on end I don't have much hope for Windows users worldwide.

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Hypex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 15:55:21
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Rose

Quote:
RTF has been used as attack vector for nearly decade.


And they haven't fixed the loader yet? Or people just don't like Windows updates?

Attack vector sounds funny. I've never associated an RTF with a target from F/A 18 Interceptor.

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klx300r 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 18:55:48
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3490
From: Toronto, Canada

@Hypex

I use YAM on my A4000 with no issues at all sending/ receiving/ attaching files etc. though I've never tried to attach this RTF file you mention

on My X1000 with OS4.1FE I use Sylpheed under AmiCygnix and it's rock solid and lightning fast using IMAP settings with my original Yahoo email from way back.....always keep it running minimized on my workbench

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klx300r 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 30-Oct-2019 18:57:27
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3490
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

AP wrote:
Maybe this is an alternative?

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=network/email/sylpheed.lha

It requires AmiCygnix.



+1 it's a great fast and reliable email client and works really fast with IMAP

_________________
____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

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Hypex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 10:25:39
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

@TRIPOS

Iris. I "see" what you mean here.

I recall hearing about this. Yes it sounds good. Funny how a program can come about like this. How many people are working on it? YAM has been worked on by many people but it doesn't have those features.

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Hypex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 10:31:21
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

@AP

Quote:
Maybe this is an alternative?


That looks interesting. It's a further step away than MUI was as an interface. I've used AmiCygnix before and tend to open it up when I need too. I probably wouldn't want to use this as a full time solution as it tends to look fake and slow on AmigaOS. On Linux it looks and acts real. Still it's good to have the option.

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jacadcaps 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 10:43:11
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2007
Posts: 142
From: Poland

@K-L

Quote:
I tried iris MorphOS form some weeks but it still not as "simple" as SimpleMail ans still lacks features (and with Gmail it has a bug since sent messages are also saved in drafts on Gmail).


Could you elaborate on this? What features do you think are missing?

A message staying in Drafts could be an effect of a networking issue. Or was it saved as draft in Outgoing Messages?

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jacadcaps 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 10:45:12
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2007
Posts: 142
From: Poland

@Hypex

Quote:
How many people are working on it?


Iris is a one-man project. Been working on it since 2016, including porting ObjectiveC and implementing a MUI framework for it.

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Hypex 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 10:47:33
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9627
From: Greensborough, Australia

@K-L

Quote:
Hypex : from your description, it seems you misconfigured your SMTP section.


This may relate to how YAM handles accounts. I did log in to YAM as another user with Yahoo as my main email but I saw no difference. So went back to my usual ISP account. It's a bit complicated these days since they don't give information to set up email like they used too and YAM is too complicated for the info they do give. YAM is too technical. As an example last time I looked for SMTP in Yahoo mail help I got nothing with any SMTP settings.

I did some testing. My Yahoo is forwarded to my ISP email. I emailed to my Yahoo. It turned up in my inbox. I also emailed my Yahoo with RTF attached. It too turned up in my Yahoo. I then repeated the two tests with my Yahoo email as the source from YAM using the From gadget to change it. Both arrived.

I then tried with Gmail. I didn't get far here. My first email ended up in my spam folder. It was marked as phishing. I don't know what happened to the rest. I need to check in YAM for any rejects.

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AP 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 13:04:12
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 423
From: Vienna/Austria

@klx300r: Good to know! I didnt test it when I had an AOS4-system and at the moment I am waiting for Tabor.

I need IMAP (Apple) and was hoping, that SimpleMail will have proper support some day. But sylpheed looks like an good alternative in the meantime.

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AP 
Re: Is this the end for using YAM and SimpleMail as an email client?
Posted on 31-Oct-2019 13:05:34
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 423
From: Vienna/Austria

@jacadcaps: I tested Iris on MorphOS and its an impressive piece of software. Respect!

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