Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5770 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
23 crawler(s) on-line.
 13 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 BigD:  13 mins ago
 Trixie:  36 mins ago
 billt:  37 mins ago
 AP:  39 mins ago
 sTix:  40 mins ago
 amigakit:  47 mins ago
 Templario:  1 hr 21 mins ago
 Plexus:  1 hr 23 mins ago
 Belxjander:  1 hr 33 mins ago
 thomas:  2 hrs 4 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  General Technology (No Console Threads)
      /  Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 )
PosterThread
BigD 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 28-Jun-2020 23:48:23
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5320
From: UK

@evilFrog

Ahhh, the Bandai (Apple) Pippin; designed by Apple by stealth without the confidence to put it up against the Mac directly with their own branding a bit like the CDTV! That didn't work out so well for either machine; complicating the porting of Mac / Amiga titles respectively. The Mac was still going down the pan until Jobs and Ive birthed the Bondi Blue iMac which I hated due to the 'puck' mouse!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 29-Jun-2020 14:03:53
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1036
From: Unknown

@LarsB

Quote:
And the ARM stuff? No dedicated GPU. Low clockrate. Extensive use of the powersaving makes it less rersponsive. Thats my psersonal opinion.


You are of course entitled to your opinion. But did you even look at the keynote and the “state of the union” presentations where they actually showed it running?

The new CPU’s aren’t here yet, so the demos were conducted using a A12Z CPU (that can be found in iPad Pro). Microsoft Office was extremely snappy, Photoshop was very fast. Final Cut playing three concurrent 4k streams in parallel, applying filters in real time while playing, without a glitch. Heck, even using Maya x86 through the JIT, maneuvering in that scene with 6 million polygons with textures and shaders on top, was extremely snappy. Photorealism in Cinema 4D, etc. I’d say that it was in fact impressive, and lack of responsiveness is nowhere to be seen, rather the opposite!

And again, this is not the CPU that will be used! That one isn’t ready yet.

Rumours have it that Apple are developing at least three different CPU’s based on their micro architecture coming in the A14 family, of which at least one will be a desktop class CPU. It will be a 12-core CPU made in 5nm fab, with 8 high performance cores (fire storm) and 4 low energy cores (ice storm). Given the performance already demoed using the much weaker A12Z, I feel kind of puzzled how you can actually be of the opinion that it will be “less responsive”.

And that CPU will still only constitute the beginning, the A15 family is already being developed, with more to follow of course. And remember that the transition to their own silicone is planned to take two years. The technology will be developed in the mean time, it’s not here yet, so there is no way to say at this point what it will be like. But a logical first step would be to release a laptop and a Mac Mini (developer systems in the shape of Mac Mini’s are being shipped right now, as we speak, probably with A12Z CPU’s), perhaps also a lower end iMac. That will probably be what we’ll see late 2020/early 2021. More computer options to follow after that, they will not all be here all at once, new products will emerge over time with new CPU’s that will fit the scope of the respective product. Apple will be in full control and they for sure has every kind of resources needed to accomplish this. And I’d say that it is a given that the desktop CPU’s will have plenty of options for peripheral equipments, both in terms of USB4 and PCIe 5 (probably, PCIe 5 is also where Intel is also putting most of its weight instead of PCIe 4).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DiscreetFX 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 1:09:15
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1872
From: Chicago, IL

@Thread

Franko loves Apple’s new transition to ARM Silicon. It will be his new Amiga of choice and the first thing he will install is AMOS AGA.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 30-Jun-2020 at 02:36 PM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 2:50:14
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1603
From: N-Space

@DiscreetFX

You're on that Franko lark again. You really need to make a poll out of it.

Last edited by bison on 30-Jun-2020 at 02:26 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
LarsB 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 13:50:01
#65 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 40
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

thank you for the productive answer. Sounds good. And your are right Apple has any kind of resources. Still I think Apple will make the OS more restrictive. But thats another story. We can only can wait and see what happens there.

Cinema 4D remembers me to the good old times ;) But it was also the last nail to the coffin why I left Amiga.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 14:02:21
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5320
From: UK

@LarsB

Quote:
But it was also the last nail to the coffin why I left Amiga.


Come on! None of us really left the Amiga, we just don't use it as our primary machine anymore unless you're a AmigaOS 4.x fanatic!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Raffaele 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 21:02:28
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1905
From: Naples, Italy

@amigang

I think it is just Apple move to have their own produced CPU with controlled manufacturing of their own.

Just more or less what Commodore did when they bought MOS Tech Inc. in order not to suffer of semiconductors market shortages.

Difference between Apple and Commodore is that migrating on their own controlled ARM CPU will stop Apple worrying of the sneaking phenomenon of Hackintosh clones that affect the platform adopting Intel Architecture.

With an ARM CPU of their own, Apple can produce non standard ARM processors impossible to be cloned neither leaving possible any hack implemented on other manufacturers ARM CPUs.

Last edited by Raffaele on 30-Jun-2020 at 09:04 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
evilFrog 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 30-Jun-2020 22:04:57
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 347
From: UK

@bison

Quote:
You really need to make a poll out of it.


Don’t forget the pancakes, @DiscreetFX!

_________________
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil."

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 1-Jul-2020 0:15:24
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 717
From: Kansas

Quote:

Raffaele wrote:
I think it is just Apple move to have their own produced CPU with controlled manufacturing of their own.

Just more or less what Commodore did when they bought MOS Tech Inc. in order not to suffer of semiconductors market shortages.


Apple has chips fabricated by TSMC so C= was more vertically integrated than Apple is today. C= squandered the MOS acquisition by not spending the money to upgrade the fab. Jay Miner could see the need.

Quote:

We originally did the chips using the NMOS process which has much higher current consumption than the state of the art CMOS. I'm surprised that Commodore haven't re-designed the chips in CMOS which is the big stumbling block to bringing out a portable. We did that because at the time, CMOS was much slower than NMOS and not as reliable. It's now much faster, so why are Commodore still using NMOS for some of their chips?


C= could have had a low cost low power one chip Amiga in the 90s. Instead, MOS turned into a liability as a hazardous waste site and HP started making the most advanced Amiga chips (Lisa). That was at a time when the memory miser Amiga (68k and AmigaOS) was more of an advantage. Today, even the memory could be included on an SoC (an Amiga can operate from what most other computers use as an L2 cache) and an Amiga could run off battery all day without the sluggishness of most low power devices. Failing in the shrinking desktop market with fat PPC seems to be the only idea instead of shrinking code by half and going smaller and cheaper as devices do.

Apple is not the only vertically integrated company designing state of the art mobile SoC chips. Samsung is more vertically integrated by fabbing its own chips. Qualcomm has been designing chips longer than Apple and entered the server market. Apple already has a small foothold with good name recognition in the shrinking desktop market and has a niche in the high quality higher margin segment or it likely would have stayed away. Sharing development costs with mobile helps reduce costs too.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 1-Jul-2020 0:36:24
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5320
From: UK

@matthey

Quote:
Apple already has a small foothold with good name recognition in the shrinking desktop market and has a niche in the high quality higher margin segment or it likely would have stayed away. Sharing development costs with mobile helps reduce costs too.


It likely would have "stayed away" from it's heritage in the desktop space?! macOS birthed iOS and is a great environment in itself with less of a walled garden feel! Now they want to destroy it and roll it all up into iOS as far as I can see.

I couldn't care less about iOS apps nor Apple's already horrendously bloated profit margins! What are the odds that none of the cost savings will be passed onto us and high prices will continue to be justified by the in-house ARM development costs and marketing as always

Last edited by BigD on 01-Jul-2020 at 12:37 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 1-Jul-2020 0:54:55
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 717
From: Kansas

Quote:

BigD wrote:
It likely would have "stayed away" from it's heritage in the desktop space?! macOS birthed iOS and is a great environment in itself with less of a walled garden feel! Now they want to destroy it and roll it all up into iOS as far as I can see.


If Apple wasn't already in the desktop market then they likely would not have entered it. Good businesses migrate to higher margin markets. How many new companies have entered the desktop market lately? How many have disappeared because of consolidation or bankruptcy?

Quote:

I couldn't care less about iOS apps nor Apple's already horrendously bloated profit margins! What are the odds that none of the cost savings will be passed onto us and high prices will continue to be justified by the in-house ARM development costs and marketing as always


Apple cares about their profit margins and I expect they want to retain them. ARM chips will likely give you a smaller die size to make up for some of the performance loss and a small savings on your electric bill to help offset the Apple tax.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
LarsB 
Re: Apple moving to arm, the end of x86
Posted on 1-Jul-2020 10:52:55
#72 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 40
From: Unknown

@BigD There you are right. I watch look at Amigaworld dn Amiga-News multiple times a day. Also the NG stuff is very interesting. It casts shadow and light.

But I am all thankful that I dont need it as a base of daily work. Two more weeks :)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle