But wasn't the topic about the messages on amiga.com?

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@andres

well, the amiwest thread is really "complain about your least favorite owner", so things are normal around here.

#6

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@Hypex Quote:

Hypex wrote: @cdimauro Quote: OK, I see now. However if you have POSIX-compliant scripts then there's should be no problem on Debian. In my case I was using Mint. And an older Ubuntu.

Both are Debian-based.
Quote:

Quote: Worst case: just use bash instead of dash. I could have done that. In the end I decided to keep it to POSIX. But I kept the evil echo commands in. That was a first sign as well. I was getting different behaviour. I wanted it to be as clean and simple as possible. Sometimes having lesser features can simplify it as you need to do what you need in other ways which can be better in some ways. I found comparisons are simpler since bash needs things to be in double square brackets and other quirks. I was able to read lines in a file quite easily. Where I needed an array for file management, I could instead simply read lines instead. I ended up writing support functions that could rename, insert, remove or move items in a list. By using another support function that dynamically rebuilt the list and echoed the result into a variable. Which looked easier than if I had arrays and would have then needed to rearrange it with indexes.

May I suggest you to switch to Python?

Quote:

But wasn't the topic about the messages on amiga.com?

@andres
No. This is a topic in which everyone speaks with their inner self about painful stuff. Join us!

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AmigaOS 3.9, AmigaOS 4.1FE and AROS One

I would still like to hear what Linux kernel patches are needed for posix compliance.

From experience porting/building/maintening software between “good old real” unix (AIX, Solaris, Irix, Tru64 etc) I would say Linux posix compliance is the least to worry about - those commercial dinosaurs of old were/are riddled with “half compliance” and “funny” obscurities that can drive anyone nuts - porting to Linux (or the current BSDs for that matter) is typically a walk in the park in comparison.

Oh, and bash (like most shells?) has a posix mode.

Last edited by kolla on 01-Nov-2020 at 08:17 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 01-Nov-2020 at 08:15 AM.

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@Hypex

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean. ASL handles file, font and screenmode requesters. By all accounts AHI should be on the list as well. Do you mean a similar command that can bring up an ASL requester?

AHI???

Yes, the OS comes with RequestFile and RequestChoice that use ASL, but there is no RequestString, and all variants of RequestString I ever found uses reqtools.library - why is that? ASL (Amiga Standard Library) has no way of presenting a string input gadget? But ASL filerequester has “rename file” which pops up such a gadget. So wtf - why doesn’t an ASL pure RequestString exist? I really want to get rid of ancient and mostly redundant reqtools.library, or at least replace it with an ASL wrapper.

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@kolla
Don't need a poor RequestChoice in which you don't even set the number of buttons. AmigaDOS doesn't have tools for menu processing! The best tool for choose in AmigaDOS is Installer. People write 100500+ of their utilities to solve this elementary problem, which should be solved by the AmigaDOS. To say that this is outrageous is to say nothing.

Another task: size of file or directory.
Command "filesize" appears only in AmigaOS 4.
This is one of the most elementary tasks that have to be solved in scripts!
Talking about standards after that is highly meaningless.
First it is necessary that at least in AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4 and AROS there was one set of commands.

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@aGGreSSor

I wasn’t talking about RequestChoice (and really? You don’t know how to specify the number of buttons??) I was talking about RequestString. As for file size, again... really? You don’t know how to use the List command? And directory size is list + eval, right? Scripts? Not at all, oneliners.

As for one set of commands, yes that would be lovely, like an Amiga equivalent of posix that must be supported across amigaos, morphos and aros alike. Hahahahahahaha.... very funny.

Last edited by kolla on 02-Nov-2020 at 12:09 AM.

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@kolla Quote:

kolla wrote: I would still like to hear what Linux kernel patches are needed for posix compliance.

Patches for fsync, fcntl, and some other APIs. Maybe Rose can give you some other hints.
Quote:

From experience porting/building/maintening software between “good old real” unix (AIX, Solaris, Irix, Tru64 etc) I would say Linux posix compliance is the least to worry about - those commercial dinosaurs of old were/are riddled with “half compliance” and “funny” obscurities that can drive anyone nuts - porting to Linux (or the current BSDs for that matter) is typically a walk in the park in comparison.

That's another question.
Quote:

Oh, and bash (like most shells?) has a posix mode.

Then make it the default one...

@cdimauro

Quote:

May I suggest you to switch to Python?

Oh no. It's already taking over OS4. I could but then I'd need to learn it. Plus I would need it depended on. Most sources I've seen present it as OOP. But it just looks as annoying as OS4 interfaces as this object must be prepended to all function calls. Perhaps it was just how it was handled.

In any case I wanted to keep it simple. I started off using Glade to design a GUI and was going to script it. But I just couldn't figure the damn thing out. It was just too complicated. I followed these guides. Thought I was getting it. Then just gave up on it.

I was then going to use YAD which looks really useful. Found it wasn't on my older Ubuntu and I couldn't compile it. So settled on Zenity. It works fine for what I want. It looks quite good in spots with a charm of it's own.

@kolla

Quote:

AHI???

Yes, but not directly. AHI uses audio modes. So it makes sense to add an audio mode option. Like RequestAudio.

Actually, a RequestFont and RequestScreen are missing.

Quote:

Yes, the OS comes with RequestFile and RequestChoice that use ASL, but there is no RequestString, and all variants of RequestString I ever found uses reqtools.library - why is that?

Which OS? My OS4.1 install has a RequestString.

RequestString 53.1 (18/01/2014)

Quote:

ASL (Amiga Standard Library) has no way of presenting a string input gadget? But ASL filerequester has ?rename file? which pops up such a gadget. So wtf - why doesn?t an ASL pure RequestString exist? I really want to get rid of ancient and mostly redundant reqtools.library, or at least replace it with an ASL wrapper.

Well, no, ASL doesn't have a direct way of presenting a string gadget. It's made for requesters, not gadgets. A simple string gadget is below it's scope, as the point of ASL was a standard way to select a file or font from a requester. Or dialog as they call them on common OS. Requester is to dialog as gadget is to widget.

The RequestString that does exist, on my system, uses the requester.class gadget. I also have RequestChooser.

I was going to write my own simple RequestX app once in keeping with the theme. It was going to be an interface builder. Called RequestInterface.

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: I was going to write my own simple RequestX app once in keeping with the theme. It was going to be an interface builder. Called RequestInterface.

What's wrong with R?

@Hypex

Quote:

Quote: AHI??? Yes, but not directly. AHI uses audio modes. So it makes sense to add an audio mode option. Like RequestAudio.

But AHI is not part of the OS, you could just as well argue that there should be RequestNetInterface, RequestUSBHIDDevice etc.

Quote:

Actually, a RequestFont and RequestScreen are missing.

I don't quite how such commands would be very useful from interactive usermade scripts.
Quote:

Quote: Yes, the OS comes with RequestFile and RequestChoice that use ASL, but there is no RequestString, and all variants of RequestString I ever found uses reqtools.library - why is that? Which OS? My OS4.1 install has a RequestString.

Anything 68k AmigaOS of course - the topic here is amiga.com, they have little and nothing to do with OS4. But that OS4 comes with a RequestString just shows that it should also exist on 68k, simple "OS pure" scripts should work equally well on both (ppffffff.... hahaha!)

Quote:

Quote: ASL (Amiga Standard Library) has no way of presenting a string input gadget? But ASL filerequester has ?rename file? which pops up such a gadget. So wtf - why doesn?t an ASL pure RequestString exist? I really want to get rid of ancient and mostly redundant reqtools.library, or at least replace it with an ASL wrapper. Well, no, ASL doesn't have a direct way of presenting a string gadget.

Well, it clearly has, the "rename file" and "make directory" in ASL file questers do pup up a string requester with such a gadget.

Quote:

It's made for requesters, not gadgets. A simple string gadget is below it's scope, as the point of ASL was a standard way to select a file or font from a requester. Or dialog as they call them on common OS. Requester is to dialog as gadget is to widget.

It's as if you didn't understand what I was writing... ASL is full of input string gadgets, they are there where you type in paths and filenames in the file requester as well as the above mention string requesters. I just find it puzzling that there is no standard RequestString built just on ASL instead of reqtools.library.

Last edited by kolla on 03-Nov-2020 at 10:05 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 03-Nov-2020 at 10:00 AM.

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@bison

Well it's not exactly "new officlal Amiga models announced to go on sale early 2021" but better than nothing I suppose.

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@kolla

AROS has requeststring command:
Quote:

> REQUESTSTRING ? STRING,TEXT/K,TITLE/K,NOGADS/S,WIDTH/N,SAFE/S,PERSIST/S,ENCRYPT/S,COMPARE/K,PUBSCREEN/K:

AmigaOS4 has requestring command:
Quote:

> REQUESTSTRING ? TITLE/A,BODY/A,POSITIVE/K,NEGATIVE/K,DEFSTRING/K,MAXLEN/K/N,NOTEMPTY/S,INVISIBLE/S,TO/K,PUBSCREEN/K,CHARSET/K,INACTIVE/S:

The blind can see that they are totally different. Oneliners?

Amiga has fewer POSIX inccompatibility problems, than AmigaDOS incompatibility of their different implementations. Amiga developers have been praying at POSIX since 1985.

POSIX isn't a problem at all on the Amiga today.

It's easier for me to compile a POSIX application for AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4, AROS and MorphOS than similarly compile AmigaOS 3 application for AmigaOS 4. Because it will have to be partially rewritten.

It's impossible to compile an application from MorphOS to AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4 and AROS.
Because it will have to be rewritten completely.

During this time the POSIX was already buried and forgotten.
I repeat: the standard for Linux is LINUX STANDARD BASE. Not POSIX!

You deceive yourself. POSIX offers no benefit other than destroying the AmigaDOS environment.

Posix is needed to simplify the transfer of applications and will not be easier than it is now. Because below the level, implementations of even basic things will not appear, for example mknod, mkfifo. AmigaDOS has a different philosophy.

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They are getting better at it:

there is a string that can be seen only at random intervals being passed along with the HTTP header:

"SECRETS ABOUND: FyLSjB82lduOe3pWM+sH6WR/fedoPWpOF0BKSIVIkTXBXvopY01N61fQ9IOX3Epk3hJVlbL8frnjBJ70gN8p9BgPRxCv+VvFeKs2Jy5wgkQPCVIY4oBazrG7mDBFVbrQ"

without quotes.

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@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

What's wrong with R?

For one thing I've never heard of it. For another it sounds like the reflex. Every little thing the reflex does leaves you answered with the question R. Danana, danana, danana, the reflex. The reflex. Fle-fle-fle-fle-flex!

Well I just tried it out. It's a neat idea and works well for what it does. But it wouldn't let me use it without installing it and didn't ask me how. That's kinda too complicated for my liking. With only a readme I like to try before I buy so I can see what it's talking about. And I don't like things installing to C as I keep foreign commands away from the system.

Apart from that it wasn't what I was thinking. I was thinking of being able to describe a simple GUI in a line of text or a file and have it bring it up. Somethng that gives slightly more freedom than simple requesters. Like a dialogue builder for other systems. Like GUI4CLI whch could be more well known but less complicated.

@kolla

Quote:

But AHI is not part of the OS, you could just as well argue that there should be RequestNetInterface, RequestUSBHIDDevice etc.

Except those don't have mode IDs to chose from. There can be different audio devices in an Amiga just like different graphic chipsets. So, even though AHI is only a defacto standard, it still makes sense to have audio modes. Just none was rattified before Commodore went down.

Quote:

I don't quite how such commands would be very useful from interactive usermade scripts.

Useful for advanced scripts I guess. These commands are available to ARexx as well. Anything that wants to configure screen and font setttings.

Quote:

Anything 68k AmigaOS of course - the topic here is amiga.com, they have little and nothing to do with OS4. But that OS4 comes with a RequestString just shows that it should also exist on 68k, simple "OS pure" scripts should work equally well on both (ppffffff.... hahaha!)

I thought they may have added it to OS3.1.4.

Quote:

Well, it clearly has, the "rename file" and "make directory" in ASL file questers do pup up a string requester with such a gadget.

Perhaps requester wasn't the right word they chose since it's more like a dialog in common terms. And in Amiga parlance a requester only displayed text and buttons. But, it wouldn't be popping up a string requester, it would be popping up a window with a string gadget. I don't think string requesters existed on OS3 even. Requester windows used to have certain properties different to a standard window.

Quote:

It's as if you didn't understand what I was writing... ASL is full of input string gadgets, they are there where you type in paths and filenames in the file requester as well as the above mention string requesters. I just find it puzzling that there is no standard RequestString built just on ASL instead of reqtools.library.

I can understand what you are saying. But ASL is using Gadtools. Gadtools is providing the string gadgets. So any RequestString wouldn't use ASL or any reqtools.library, it would be using gadtools.library, if the system had it. ASL was just an answer to there being no system way of selecting files, fonts or screens. It should have been there earlier so third party solutions like ReqTools came along to fill the gap. Which they did too well.

So, my point was, ASL only provides file, font or screen requesters. Even on OS4 it only does that. If anythng provides a string requester it wouldn't be ASL. I'm not aware of any system library that can be programmed to open custom requesters with string or other gadgets. Gadtools provided a menu builder but lacked an interface builder.

There's a system function to simplify open requesters, that I've used, but it could only take body text and buttons text as input to display.

@Hypex

So what is C:RequestChoice?

I see, it doesn't use ASL... well, perhaps ASL should be extended, its name is misleading. My point is simple - reqtools.library should be obsoleted by ASL.

Last edited by kolla on 06-Nov-2020 at 11:55 PM.

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@kolla

The minute ASL switches its "ok" and "cancel" keyboard shortcuts to enter key and escape key respectively and update the style guide accordingly, there's a chance that ReqTools will be made obsolete. I'm not holding my breath though. ASL's faults and shortcomings in the early versions were many and the patch that replaces ASL with ReqTools is so handy now that I doubt we'll see the day.