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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  New mini update from Hyperion
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PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 12:18:21
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

is your login hacked?

First time I see you supporting Hyperion

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OlafS25 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 12:23:54
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@amigakit

I think kas1e has a point...

Assuming something not works and a user has installed enhancer who does the support? Hyperion or Amigakit? Normally users will ask on a Hyperion forum but it becomes very diffcult to reproduce problems if a system is a mixture of different software sources. In my view stay away from standard components at least until you are 100% sure that a replacement not creates trouble and use different naming before. There are lots of command replacements in aminet who do it this way, replacing standard components (often with much more options) but with different nameing so not causing problems for users.

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 12:35:50
#23 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2412
From: www.amigakit.com

@OlafS25

Absolutely, point taken. In future we are going to ensure that everything is triple checked in the beta test process before release. The Enhancer Software installer asks the user for confirmation before installing anything onto their system and we want users to have the confidence in what they are installing. Wherever there is a niggle that sneaks through we will follow up swiftly. I think that the response to problems is the most important action. We have an updated Version command which will be sent out shortly on Updater tool.

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Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

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jaokim 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 12:43:42
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 277
From: Sweden

@amigakit

Maybe it’s been answered, though I can’t find it in this thread. But, what’s the main motivation for replacing specifically the version command?

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 12:58:21
#25 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2412
From: www.amigakit.com

@jaokim

We will need this and some others for supporting future planned projects.

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Chris_Y 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 15:39:40
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3166
From: Beds, UK

@amigakit

Would it not be possible to do this with a functionally equivalent/improved but renamed VERSION command?

There's no reason why something that is calling the VERSION command couldn't instead call a different command called VER. That would also stop your products from running the original VERSION which doesn't have the functionality you need (compatibility works both ways).

AmigaOS and Enhancer could sit quite happily alongside each other without replacing core components. I may be misremembering, but didn't sound.datatype cause problems here, as the Enhancer version added functionality, and the OS4 version since added (other, different, incompatible) functionality? If it had been called audio.datatype, and the Enhancer datatypes had been sub-classed off of that instead, it would avoid this confusing mess.

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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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jaokim 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 15:44:45
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 277
From: Sweden

@amigakit

That was a very vague answer.

Surely it’d be possible to use your own command, like “versioner” or something? The risk is now that Hyperion updates their version command, and breaks your stuff?

I mean, don’t get me wrong, I certainly applaud the enhancement software package, I really do! It’s a great thing! But I agree with others that replacing system commands, seems a tad unnecessary, and can lead to very much confusion for the end-users. It’s already a bit daunting to update software.

Last edited by jaokim on 11-May-2021 at 03:45 PM.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 16:49:12
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2047
From: Chicago, IL

@amigakit

Just wanted to say the new Enhancer Software looks great and I'll be ordering later this week.

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cgutjahr 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 18:09:35
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 943
From: Unknown

@jaokim

Quote:

The risk is now that Hyperion updates their version command, and breaks your stuff?

Obviously, the idea is that sooner rather than later, "Hyperion" and "any software controlled by Hyperion" are no longer a concern.

The project just needs a name now, hence all the domain and trademark grabbing.

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number6 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 18:16:44
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@cgutjahr

for name...Amiga Technology perhaps?

http://www.amigatechnology.com/

#6

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AP 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 19:12:04
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 593
From: Vienna/Austria

@cgutjahr: One of the biggest Hyperion-bashers is now concerned about Hyperion? Ben will appreciated this...

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

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matthey 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 19:48:01
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1139
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

for name...Amiga Technology perhaps?

http://www.amigatechnology.com/


Should it be AmigaOneTechnology.com from AmigaOneKit?

Amiga Corporation
https://amiga.com/

Maybe there are new license agreements, lawsuits, mergers or acquisitions we don't know about yet.

Last edited by matthey on 12-May-2021 at 01:00 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 11-May-2021 at 07:51 PM.

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BigD 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 20:15:28
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5906
From: UK

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:
@cgutjahr: One of the biggest Hyperion-bashers is now concerned about Hyperion? Ben will appreciated this...



I didn't read what he said like that. I thought he just meant that Hyperion are not long for this world and paying them any consideration in the medium to long term is pointless!

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:
@jaokim
... Obviously, the idea is that sooner rather than later, "Hyperion" and "any software controlled by Hyperion" are no longer a concern.


... no longer a concern because they're done! That's not being 'concerned' about them! That's ambivalence IMHO!

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amigadave 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 20:47:45
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:
@Mattew
Just accept that idea of replacing system components creating MESS in end. Everyone keeps told you that. Even all your testers and most developers include major ones.

Yes, in this case, your version replacement didn't break installation but broke checking of the installed library.

You say "nothing broken", but IT IS BROKEN if it does not mimic 100% fully original! You provide version command which not behave like original, accept it, and didn't protect the mess you create with that replacements.

Really, Hyperion's devs (some of them, I dunno who or how or when) plan to make some more updates. And some of them will continue their versioning theme which you ... mm.. "overwrite" for some reasons (which really, not a very good movie). And that means, end-users will have issues and only can blame the replacement component from Enhancer, as well as versioning theme which you do not create from scratch, but pretend it to be like "next version" over original ones, while, it even didn't mimic fully (and never will) originals!


I don't disagree with the principal of your argument against how the Enhancer Packs should be using different names than system components, but I have to laugh at the notion that Hyperion has a "team of developers" who will some day get back to writing updates for AmigaOS4, that are different than the "team of developers" that AEON and AmigaKit use to write the Enhancer Packs. There might be one or two developers who aren't working with AEON and AmigaKit, who still have a working relationship with Hyperion, but I highly doubt that there are more than that, and I would not be surprised if the actual number of developers who work for Hyperion and not also working with AEON and AmigaKit is equal to ZERO!

I think that this MIGHT be the reason that AEON and AmigaKit don't see what they are doing as a problem, but that is just me guessing, as I can't read their minds.

Since I am very vocal against Hyperion, I personally don't see any problem if AEON and AmigaKit eventually take over all development of AmigaOS4. Hyperion hasn't paid for development of AmigaOS4 for years, and frankly, there isn't enough money to be made from AmigaOS4 to properly pay for it's development into the future. Just not enough users to support all the work needed to make AmigaOS4 into a semi-modern OS. AmigaOS4 users probably would not have any modern graphics drivers, except for the crazy interest of one user who now lives in NZ.

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Rob 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 20:50:01
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6067
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

Quote:
as well as the kernel takeover


ExecSG is property of Trevor Dickinson, not A-EON. New releases still come via Hyperion. Version 54.28 came with the December 23rd update to 4.1FE and the January 12th qickfix contained v54.30.

Last edited by Rob on 11-May-2021 at 08:50 PM.

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guruman 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 22:18:44
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2007
Posts: 133
From: Padova, Italy

@cgutjahr

Quote:
cgutjahr wrote:

Obviously, the idea is that sooner rather than later, "Hyperion" and "any software controlled by Hyperion" are no longer a concern.

The project just needs a name now, hence all the domain and trademark grabbing.

And when it comes to names, I did follow the X5000 link on amigakit signature for the first time: is it like this since long? I remember that being an AmigaOne HW was a strong concern some time ago, and OS4/OS 4.1 was not really the preferred name for the operating system... But it's likely I was not paying enough attention lately!

Kind regards,
Andrea

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DiscreetFX 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 22:56:46
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2047
From: Chicago, IL

@amigadave

To add, I don't think AmigaOS 4.1 needs to have all the modern features of Windows and or macOS. If it gets some enhancements for the Amiga fans, hobbyists, and retro enthusiasts that should be fine. Amiga has not been a mainstream platform for some time. And there's little hope that it could ever add all the features of macOS or Windows. Hopefully, no one is attempting such as task which would require hundreds or maybe thousands of full-time developers. I enjoy using it for what it is and was very glad to get a final version early this year. Before that my version was in pre-release way too long.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-May-2021 at 11:00 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-May-2021 at 11:00 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-May-2021 at 10:59 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 23:00:57
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 943
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

Maybe there are new license agreements, lawsuits, mergers or acquisitions we don't about yet though.

There aren't.

@BigD

Quote:

I thought he just meant that Hyperion are not long for this world and paying them any consideration in the medium to long term is pointless!

People have been betting against Ben Hermans for decades. And usually the ones who keep telling you that "Ben is no longer a problem" are the ones quietly walking away later - after Ben cut off their balls and added them to his collection.

Amigakit is moving away from Hyperion, no matter what. Or at the very least they're pretending to, because maybe Ben will get scared and play nice this time?

@number6:

Quote:

for name...Amiga Technology perhaps?

Nah, I'm totally sure that's very above board - absolutely nothing sinister about that. After all, Mr. Leaman knows the guy who run's the world's oldest website, you know?

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kolla 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 12-May-2021 5:47:14
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

This is not just about OS4, AmigaKit is doing the same with OS3 as well. I just find it hilarious and ridiculous that they cannot just join the “official” developer effort, and instead resort to this less-than-stealthy attempt at taking over. But this is just one of many hilarious and ridiculous activities they are involved with these days (like pretending they have credibility back to 1994 just because they bought amiga.org from Wayne… haha… last I heard he wholeheartedly regret selling the domain to them)

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matthey 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 12-May-2021 10:42:05
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1139
From: Kansas

I don't understand why AmigaKit is so eager to enter the AmigaOS 4 development market. Hyperion exited AmigaOS 4 development because it was not profitable and AmigaOS 4 is only available for the poorly selling and no longer developed PPC architecture. If $50 U.S. in profit per non-Amiga labeled PPC hardware could be made from AmigaOS related development and there are only 1000 non-Amiga labeled PPC hardwares sold per year then this would be at most $50,000 which is only enough to pay one developer. In reality, not even 1000 non-Amiga PPC hardwares are being sold per year. Considering how poorly AmigaOS 4 competes on the desktop and the decline of PPC, expect the situation to get worse. Why Hyperion is not eager to unload AmigaOS 4 to an over eager AmigaKit I don't know.

AmigaOS 3 68k is a better situation. It starts out as a bigger market, lower end hardware can be made cheaper for it and AmigaOS 3 68k is more competitive for retro gaming, hobbyist and embedded markets. Despite this, AmigaOS 4 PPC is the great hope and focus when there is practically zero chance of success on the desktop.

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