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      /  Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
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Poll : Can we kick start new 68k designs using TSMC Fabs?
Yes, FPGA was fun but let's take this to the next level!
Yes, but I'm not sure this is scalable
Maybe but Amiga is not ready for a 68k relaunch with the IP issues
No, Vampire and 080 type chip designs are a cottage industry IMHO
No, 68k had its chance and now ARM is the future.
No, everything is x86-64 or ARM now so why go against that?
Pancakes!
 
PosterThread
OneTimer1 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 18:12:15
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 962
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

... but maybe we can now design a new 68k chip and get TSMC to mass produce it? Could the Apollo Team do this if they wanted? What is possible with 68k? I know PPC design is open source now but what is the situation with 68k?


Oh yeah, it's possible we just need to invest some hundred billions of cash and everything will go.

Quote:

What do people think?


Amigans:
"Yes it will be great 68k 64 bit with additional PPC cores, 8k VR goggles and super fast 3D Blitters with real time raytracing"

Normal Users:
"What is this Omega anyway?"

Investor:
"Maybe I should buy another yacht that would be fun"

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 13-Jun-2021 at 06:13 PM.

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AmigaMac 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 19:59:46
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1094
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@Rose

I don’t believe that!

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matthey 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 21:05:03
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

the amount of available graphic/texture memory has increased hugely, by adapting virtual memory. remember the memory only needs to be available while changing something.


That's a good reason for the GPU memory to be virtual memory. The GPU memory blocks are usually not as small as CPU blocks so not as much memory is wasted. SLAB allocators and 64 bit addressing wast a lot of memory and we are not even talking about performance issues.

Quote:

SLAB Object queues exist per node, per CPU. The alien cache queue even has a queue array that contain a queue for each processor on each node. For very large systems the number of queues and the number of objects that may be caught in those queues grows exponentially. On our systems with 1k nodes / processors we have several gigabytes just tied up for storing references to objects for those queues This does not include the objects that could be on those queues. One fears that the whole memory of the machine could one day be consumed by those queues.


The SLUB allocator
https://lwn.net/Articles/229984/

AmigaOS 4 is moving toward bigger and slower like Linux but doesn't get all the benefits like program isolation. Virtual memory use has generally decreased as memory prices have come down too. This is certainly not the route to go if wanting to leverage the small footprint advantage of the AmigaOS.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

The expectation between new and old programs does not need to be the same as well.

We are not running this on a 7mz computer, so we can afford a better memory system, however as program you be considering pre-allocation, using the memory on stack, avoid variable augments functions as they map to FunctionTagList(a,&myTags) functions that does the same, so your kind looping threw the arguments twice, when using variable arguments functions, FuncionTags(a,…, TAG_END).


Avoid using the AmigaOS 4 "better memory system" because it's so slow and wasteful?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 21:58:16
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@matthey

Quote:
Avoid using the AmigaOS 4 "better memory system" because it's so slow and wasteful?


No, it’s generaly good advice on all platforms, memory allocation is a bad thing in tight loops, stab is inspired by the Solaris version I believe, not sure how it compares to the Linux version of it, not sure how they compare, and not sure how it’s implemented it, I’m not a kernel developer, so from my point of view its not relevant, I do what I can to write efficient code.

Without pools of different block sizes, you get wherry slow allocation times when you have lots memory fragmentations (with even sized blocks) this what it tries to solve, primarily. We have lots of RAM, amiga programs are tiny

I’m sure ExecSG team will look into improvements they can make, for me however I do not have a problem with current memory allocation system. The only thing I can suggest not use va_arg versions of memory allocation functions as they will always be slower then taglist version of functions. It end up in the same place in the OS if call one or the other. For temporary allocation on stack is always faster, because memory is pre- allocated, and don't need to free it. Yes know Amiga progams is using tiny stacks, but using a bigger stack is not bad thing.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:24 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:03 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 10:01 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 22:49:08
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@OneTimer1

Quote:
Normal Users: "What is this Omega anyway?"


That’s funnily enough what my Gran called it and she was still happy to help me upgrade my Omega to an 030 in the mid 90s. Bless her

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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matthey 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 23:08:14
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

ne_one Quote:

I still can't fathom why these discussions always revert back to trying to reinvent 40 year old hardware.

Unless you plan to mass produce a low cost Amiga to tap into the nostalgia market why would you even bother? And setting aside the obvious legal challenges, you could do a decent job at that today through low cost emulation.

Anyone who wants to use a decades old platform already has lots of options.


Good question. It would be possible to use cheap ARM emulation of the 68k systems, especially for games. It would be difficult to make ARM hardware much cheaper than using a Raspberry Pi so it would be logical to embed a Raspberry Pi into such a product in a custom case. It would likely be a one off money maker if done right but customers are going to figure it out and other businesses are going to copy off your product. Retro and 68k fans would likely view a product using real 68k cores more favorably and upgrades could be sold. I believe a small board with 68k SoC could be produced for less than a Raspberry Pi in a custom case with mass production. Embedded market appeal could help to increase volumes for mass production where an emulated 68k has little value. A real 68k SoC with good performance would likely be bought by accelerator and stand alone board developers as 68060s are hitting crazy prices. We have this nice 68k AmigaOS release but the momentum is lost due to a shortage of 68k hardware with a good price/performance.

ne_one Quote:

If you really want the Amiga to evolve, the OS has to be rewritten - it's a software problem.


The AmigaOS needs to evolve for the desktop but it would be difficult to market there even with modern OS features as most of the competition is free. It could be sold installed on hardware but hardware becomes more and more expensive as the performance increases and it becomes cost prohibitive to mass produce. The AmigaOS is more competitive on low end hardware with a small footprint and low end hardware is much cheaper to mass produce.

OneTimer1 Quote:

Oh yeah, it's possible we just need to invest some hundred billions of cash and everything will go.


The fabless semiconductor startup PA Semi raised $86 million and had 150 employees including top developers from Digital. Apple bought them out for only $278 million. Designing and producing an Amiga 68k SoC would *not* be leading edge technology like what PA Semi was doing so should be much cheaper. I expect it could be done for under $10 million. An ASIC can be made for under $1 million but there is more R&D, design and testing work involved and it pays to hire good people.

OneTimer1 Quote:

"Yes it will be great 68k 64 bit with additional PPC cores, 8k VR goggles and super fast 3D Blitters with real time raytracing"


I would like to see at least a 68k 64 bit path forward. I would like to see 2 cores as well which could improve yields if there was a flaw in one and AMP can be useful even if SMP is not practical in the AmigaOS. The first version would likely not have 3D to keep area down for a lower price. Even a 2nd version, if the first was successful, would likely *not* be doing 8k raytracing enhanced 3D. The idea is *not* to compete with experienced high tech companies but to make people say, "Wow, how do you do so much with so little?"

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matthey 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 0:53:29
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

No, it’s generaly good advice on all platforms, memory allocation is a bad thing in tight loops, stab is inspired by the Solaris version I believe, not sure how it compares to the Linux version of it, not sure how they compare, and not sure how it’s implemented it, I’m not a kernel developer, so from my point of view its not relevant, I do what I can to write efficient code.


There are advantages and disadvantages to dynamic memory allocations. Stack allocations are dangerous when an unknown and potentially large amount of memory is needed.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Without pools of different block sizes, you get wherry slow allocation times when you have lots memory fragmentations (with even sized blocks) this what it tries to solve, primarily. We have lots of RAM, amiga programs are tiny


TLSFMem sorts the block size with one instruction (BFFFO on 68k, no branches) which can be as fast as 1 cycle and provides a best fit chunk. The decreased fragmentation saves memory and has larger chunks available after using the system for awhile but most importantly allocations and deallocations don't slow down with fragmentation.

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Hammer 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 7:14:46
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@matthey

Quote:

The 68060 was a better processor than the Pentium both of which were the first of the modern superscalar CISC processors with RISC cores and deep enough pipelines to be clocked up.

68060 based solutions was inferior in channel availability and price when compared to the Pentium.

68060 (0.6 µm manufacturing process) was released around April 1994 and it competing against 1994 Intel's second-generation classic Pentium P54C Socket 5 (0.6 µm manufacturing process).

The release dates for P54C Pentium
Pentium 100, March 1994
Pentium 90, March 1994
Pentium 75, October 1994
Pushed 1st gen Pentium into lower price tier.

Pentium's 0.6 µm manufacturing process reached up to 120 Mhz in March 1995. Pentium 120 is either 0.35 μm or 0.6 μm process.

The release dates for P54CS Pentium at 0.35 μm process
Pentium 133, June 1995
Pentium 150, Jan 1996
Pentium 166, Jan 1996
Pentium 200, June 1996

Quake was released on 22 June 1996 with magazine previews before the release date.

Flight Unlimited and Quake game titles are my main cause to jump to X86 sometime in 1996.


On TF1260, I overclocked 68060 Rev 1 to 63 Mhz without a heatsink. Temps reached 40 degrees C with Quake.

My 68060 Rev 1 refers to XC68060RC50 with S23328-002.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:55 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:55 AM.

_________________
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Hammer 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 7:36:12
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@matthey

Quote:

The fabless semiconductor startup PA Semi raised $86 million and had 150 employees including top developers from Digital. Apple bought them out for only $278 million. Designing and producing an Amiga 68k SoC would *not* be leading edge technology like what PA Semi was doing so should be much cheaper. I expect it could be done for under $10 million. An ASIC can be made for under $1 million but there is more R&D, design and testing work involved and it pays to hire good people.

FYI, PA Semi wasn't the only company with ex-DEC (Digital) engineers e.g. Intel and AMD.

AMD K7 has an EV6 bus just like DEC Alpha EV6.

AMD's Slot B EV6 slot can support DEC Alpha EV6 Slot B or AMD K7 Slot B.

Microsoft's support for AMD64 was via ex-DEC engineers' relationships.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB9FrBWrbOA
Dave N. Cutler speech on AMD x64 processor.

DEC Alpha EV6 considered to be hot with high clock speeds.

HP/Compaq's Alpha CPU R&D reached up to EV7z before it's was discontinued in 2007. Intel/HP Itanium directly replaced HP PA-RISC and Alpha EV7z.

PA-Semi was established in 2003 by Daniel W. Dobberpuhl (lead designer for the DEC Alpha 21064 EV4 and StrongARM processors).


Alpha 21264 EV6 was in the Ghz race e.g. 21264C EV68 reach 1Ghz in 2001.

AMD K7 Athlon "Pluto/Orion" reached 1Ghz in March 6, 2000

Intel Pentium III "Coppermine" reached 1Ghz in March 8, 2000.




Last edited by Hammer on 14-Jun-2021 at 08:08 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:45 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Rose 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 13:50:09
#30 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

Quote:

AmigaMac wrote:
@Rose

I don’t believe that!


Ok, show me another retro community which has "We shall rise again!" delusion.

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 19:14:35
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Rose

Quote:

Rose wrote:
@AmigaMac

There is one tiny problem with that. People in Atari community are sane and not looking for comeback.


Oh yeah Atari the t-shirt and hotel company?!

... and I say that as an ex-Atari ST owner. There is no comeback for Atari because the brand is considered 'pop culture cool' because of Blade Runner and the myth of the early computer game industry in America etc. The brand has therefore been surgically separated from the CT060 accelerator and FireBee machines etc and the brand is plastered on junk China plastic cr@p a bit like Commodore ... and yes, I include the new Atari VCS console under that description. Who wants to play Missile Command on unique hardware in 2021?

We've got a stupid court case but if you think we've got PROBLEMS!

The Amiga was unloved by America and its IP is now owned by Europeans and is better for it! The Amiga is not 'cool' other than on the night Debbie Harry and Andy Warhol demoed it, but it is loved by its community! No one loves the ST other than musicians IMHO. I don't even think I ever loved the ST. I liked Blue War III and Super Huey and the look of the case but the sound chip sucked and the disk drive sounded like it was murdering the disks! Canvas sucked and my demo version of the Papyrus word processor used to print the 'e' and 's' letters the wrong way round which freaked out my english teacher. The Amiga disk drive sounded friendly and that girl just sang with her Paula chip especially on Lemmings 2 which was the tipping point in binning the ST with its broken stupidly placed joystick port. Deluxe Paint III/IV also kicked Canvas' butt! Finally, when PageStream was put on CU Amiga cover disks it was the WHOLE 2.2 version that you COULD use for your school work. The Amiga WAS/IS special and can rise again (in a niche hobbiest and retro way). In fact I expect that the Amiga will rise to be king of the retro machines.


Shame on your unbelief! May you be banished to play Time Bandit and may you never get to play Alien Breed




Atari hotels; keeping the legacy of Star Raiders alive!

@Infogrames Entertainment SA/Atari SA

PLEASE remake Star Raiders!!!!! Make it better then X-Wing and Elite Dangerous rolled together and maybe I'd care about Atari again. Also, how many times have you screwed up remaking Gauntlet? You make SEGA seem like geniuses who never dropped the ball with Sonic 3D games

Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 08:00 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:43 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:34 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:24 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 07:21 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 22:03:09
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@BigD

Quote:
The Amiga was unloved by America...

I don't think that's quite right. Back in 1984-1985, the Amiga was a hot topic of conversation. I didn't buy one at first, mainly because I couldn't afford it until 1991 or 1992, when I bought an A500 from a friend who was selling it. But I can remember feeling envious that the Amiga was bigger on the local BBS I used than any other platform.

I'd argue that the US loved the Amiga more than Commodore did. The proof is that Commodore didn't love the Amiga at all, really: in 1991 or 1992, an A500 was more or less state of the art Amiga (yes, I know: if you wanted to add a Video Toaster it was another story but let's be honest, most customers didn't even know what that was), and was replaced shortly after by the "new, improved" A600. That was really inexcusable at a time when PC's had moved on to VGA and Sound Blaster, and Nintendo had released its platform which most people preferred for games.

America noticed that Commodore didn't have anything to offer, shrugged, and moved on. Much to my dismay!

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 22:49:02
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@simplex

They are market led to the point of insanity. I still fail to see why the PeeCee or NES were attractive options in the 80s and early 90s. Fine, I get Doom, Wing Commander and C&C but Commander Keen? Bizarre tastes! They neither know how good the Amiga generally as a culture nor about the games franchises in its unique games library like Turrican. They are obsessed with ‘Nintendo’ and idolise MegaMan, Castlevania and Metroid as ‘top of class’ offerings despite those titles having almost zero impact or relevance to us in Old Blighty. The difference is WE know about the titles that are part of THEIR history but they fail to acknowledge our gaming heritage or even that AGA machines had a life at all outside of Video Toasters most of the time!

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 22:56:02
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

... I mean did ANY American stay with the A1200/A4000 in the 90s because they liked the Team17 games for example? Why did iD Software garner such a following and yet Bitmap Brothers/Sensible Software classics such as The Chaos Engine, Speedball 2 and Cannon Fodder were all virtually unknown as Amiga games and presumably only sold over the pond on the ‘Genesis/MegaDrive’? Worst of all the mighty Lemmings is considered a PeeCee game in America! Can you play two player Lemmings on the PeeCee? PeeCee users were using flight sticks to play Mortal Kombat in the early 90s, ‘PC Master Race’ my bottom

Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 11:04 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 10:58 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Jun-2021 at 10:56 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 0:17:10
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@BigD

Quote:
Fine, I get Doom, Wing Commander and C&C but Commander Keen? Bizarre tastes!

Commander Keen was great! and I think it was free, too! (can't recall but I did play it)

You also forget Castle Wolfenstein, which predated Doom (I think) and washuge, at least here. Amiga had nothing like that.

Amiga had Wing Commander, but I tried it and they had the timing all wrong on the Amiga 500. It was much more fun on the PC.

Quote:
They neither know how good the Amiga generally as a culture nor about the games franchises in its unique games library like Turrican.

Again, that statement is highly inconsistent with my experience. When a video game rental shop opened up down the street from my house in the late 80s, most of the games were Amiga games. Apparently they did very well. They didn't just rent games, either; I learned to program Modula-2 using a box of TDI Modula-2 that I bought from them. It was great. This was the very early 90s, though; I think Bush 41 was still president, and it was clear that the IBM was starting to get the lion's share of new development.

Quote:
They are obsessed with ‘Nintendo’

It was cheap and fun.

Quote:
AGA machines had a life at all outside of Video Toasters most of the time!

Maybe I misremember but AGA was essentially DOA. The problem wasn't AGA per se, which from everything I've read since then was a disappointment; nor were the machines themselves inherently a problem, though from what I read (and experienced) the 4000 was badly mis-engineered, with a leaky battery if I recall correctly. But the AGA machines basically came out just in time for Commodore's bankruptcy: Commodore was kaput within 18 months.

Quote:
Worst of all the mighty Lemmings is considered a PeeCee game in America!

I was first told of Lemmings by an Amiga user, around 1990, so again, that's not consistent with my experience.

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 7:35:56
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@simplex

Quote:
I was first told of Lemmings by an Amiga user, around 1990, so again, that's not consistent with my experience.


So did you and your friends actually play the superior Amiga version or did you wait until it was out on the PC? Because obviously it wasn’t worth owning an Amiga in the US after 1990 because PC platformers and Wolfenstein3D were the future

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Hammer 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 7:45:42
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote:
@BigD

Quote:
The Amiga was unloved by America...

I don't think that's quite right. Back in 1984-1985, the Amiga was a hot topic of conversation. I didn't buy one at first, mainly because I couldn't afford it until 1991 or 1992, when I bought an A500 from a friend who was selling it. But I can remember feeling envious that the Amiga was bigger on the local BBS I used than any other platform.

I'd argue that the US loved the Amiga more than Commodore did. The proof is that Commodore didn't love the Amiga at all, really: in 1991 or 1992, an A500 was more or less state of the art Amiga (yes, I know: if you wanted to add a Video Toaster it was another story but let's be honest, most customers didn't even know what that was), and was replaced shortly after by the "new, improved" A600. That was really inexcusable at a time when PC's had moved on to VGA and Sound Blaster, and Nintendo had released its platform which most people preferred for games.

America noticed that Commodore didn't have anything to offer, shrugged, and moved on. Much to my dismay!


Amiga ECS improvement was C64-to-C128 improvement mindset i.e. aging gaming hardware with business low color high-resolution mindset, while PC VGA already has 16 colors at 640x480p and XGA/SVGA are already has superior raster graphics capability.

It's either A2410 with Texas Instruments TSM34010 (aka TIGA, powered Midway's arcade machines such as Mortal Kombat 1/2) or homegrown Amiga Ranger chipset with1024×1024 pixels with 128 colors (7-bit color depth).

According to DaveH, management delayed AGA was completed in 1991 Feb and it was delayed again.

Commodore runs the Amiga platform into the ground like C64.

1987 era Amiga Ranger has 68010 or 68020 CPU, 128 color (7 bits) capable chipset and 2MB chip ram. Commodore has to reject Amiga Ranger due to VRAM cost, but 32 bit DRAM would have easily drive 320x256 resolution with 128 colors (7 bits). 1990 Amiga 3000's 32-bit chip ram was wasted by 16 bit ECS.




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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
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Hammer 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 8:01:39
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote:

Amiga had Wing Commander, but I tried it and they had the timing all wrong on the Amiga 500. It was much more fun on the PC.

Wing Commander OCS/ECS runs pretty smooth on my Amiga 3000/030 @ 25Mhz, it lacks PC VGA's 256 colors.

Quote:

Maybe I misremember but AGA was essentially DOA. The problem wasn't AGA per se, which from everything I've read since then was a disappointment; nor were the machines themselves inherently a problem, though from what I read (and experienced) the 4000 was badly mis-engineered, with a leaky battery if I recall correctly. But the AGA machines basically came out just in time for Commodore's bankruptcy: Commodore was kaput within 18 months.

For 1993, Commodore didn't release an SKU that targets Doom-type game use cases in A1200 with 68LC040 + 4MB fast ram + IDE small HD in the $799 price range against $1000 based 486 PCs.

Commodore has a gap between cheap A1200 and expensive A4000.

No 68K desktop vendor was able to sell 68040/68LC040 based computers in 68000 unit numbers i.e. the transition has failed.

Commodore's A3640 (68040) card for A3000 was about $400. A1200's 68LC040 "Doom" accelerator card wouldn't need A3640's extra glue logic.

Walker specs with 68030 was a joke in 1995.

To this day, Amiga still has difficulty overcoming 68040/68060 based specs in mass production.




Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jun-2021 at 08:10 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Rose 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 12:07:21
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@BigD

Me: Members of Atari community are sane.

You: Full on ramble about random things about current copyright holder.

I wonder why Amigans are laughed at....

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BigD 
Re: Future 68k development and TMSC Fabs
Posted on 15-Jun-2021 13:08:07
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Rose

Atari is very unlikely to get their branding back! We are nearly there! Therefore we at least have a chance at some limited growth. The Atari community is destined to fade away accept FireBee diehards IMHO.

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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