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ppcamiga1 
Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 17:35:53
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 448
From: Unknown

Port AmigaOS 4 to x86 viable way.
Our community has already fast and cheap x86 solution for more than twenty years.
It is uae with JIT.
Nobody made new software for it.
It is simple.
It is not as good as Windows/Linux/OSX.
Nobody will spend ten or more time to do exactly the some work
on exactly the some computer using any Amiga OS or it clone.
Any sane person will just switch to Windows/Linux/OSX.
Amiga OS or it clone on commodity hardware may be 10%
maybe 15% worse Windows/Linux/OSX.
No more.
It have to have all new techologies that Windows/Linux/OSX has.
It have to have drivers as good as Windows/Linux/OSX has.
It must be something like Amiga Os X.
Amiga GUI and graphics on unix base.
Amiga experience on modern base.
The only viable way to commodity hardware is
to made good Amiga Os gui and graphics open source clone.
No exec, no dos, no devices, no libraries
just Amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

Who should do it ?

Attacks on Amiga Os 4 or ppc will give nothing.
It is road to nowhere.
All that people that waste time on attacks on Amiga Os 4 or ppc
should work on zune etc.
szulc, shonweiss, karlos, onetimer, di mauro, bison, neuf etc.

How?

It need to be done on ppc for speed and compatibility reasons.
First ppc aros should be fixed to add integration like on MOS or Amiga Os 4.
Then zune should be fixed to reach at least mui 3.8 compatibility.
Then good gui builder should be made for it.
Then zune should be made more modern.
After that we may switch to linux still on ppc.
Then port lo and decent webbrowser to it.
Also new blender and good developer editor should be done.
When it all be done We may use commodity hardware.

Of course zune should also work on 68k and ppc.
Anybody who want to use it should be free to use it where want.
Cooperation is important to keep compatibility.

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kolla 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 18:17:08
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2201
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

I run Linux on all my powerpc systems already, os4 cannot compete with that.

And besides, PowerPC is currently owned by Linux Foundation, and not by any amiga related “party” or “team”.

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Neuf 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 18:34:59
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@kolla



what is exactly the status of PPC within the Linux foundation? My understanding is that it is to be an open source subject to see restrictions imposed by IBM. I have some connections with the PPC laptop project and I keep hearing some interesting rumours thank you

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 21:23:29
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12273
From: Norway

@ppcamiga1

I expect it a lot easier to find a PowerPC then there is to find a old MC68060 chip, I don’t know of anything else used a MC68060 then a Amiga system. MacOS had already ditched the MC680x0 when AmigaOS started using MC68060’s.

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bison 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 22:09:42
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2088
From: N-Space

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
szulc, shonweiss, karlos, onetimer, di mauro, bison, neuf etc.

There's no interest on my part. I'm already working on two projects that are behind schedule.

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michalsc 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 22:23:23
#6 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 326
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
All that people that waste time on attacks on Amiga Os 4 or ppc
should work on zune etc.
szulc


1. Misspelling my name on purpose shows your real attitude. And I do know that you do that intentionally. I do know that English is not your native tongue. I also do know that, although you are Polish, your writing skills in your native language are awfully horrible. But misspelling Schulz to Szulc is not a coincidence.

2. I am not attacking OS4, prove it or I will tell that you are not only a troll but also a liar.

3. I am not attacking PPC, prove it or I will tell that you are not only a troll but also a liar.

4. I am not interested in porting AmigaOS 4 to x86.

5. In my free time I will do what I want, not what you want me to do.

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hardwaretech 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 22:48:28
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 5-May-2010
Posts: 45
From: blaine minnesota usa

Have you been failing the developments of AX-runtime on Aros Exec?
Sound like they already made progress on getting the bugs out of it.
Some basic apps have been included in the test app including Final Writer.
Since Windows now has a Linux subsystem some users are trying to get it to run under that.
On the Morph Os, they have been tight lip on the progression of the port to x86, other than a video a few years back and a logo earlier this year. A month ago I saw something on google when I search morph OS /64 - that said something about when it will be released it will not run on all hardware, but now it's down now.


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Karlos 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 5-May-2022 23:00:08
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2757
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@michalsc

I'm pretty sure it's a troll post.

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Neuf 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 0:52:32
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1
Oh my goodness! I am being attacked by AmigaPPC!!

Well,I do have a few things to say. Firstly let me make this quite clear. AOS 4.x is EOL. Nothing you can say is going to change that fact. It was a terrible os to begin with, and time hasn't, improved that.. I know it was the first major improvement over OS 3,but it was and is a dead end.

You made what I for quite some time was quite a good suggestion--that is running Amiga like GUI over a unix/Linux base. The problem with that is it is now badly out of date. You could have got away with that a couple of years ago, but definitely not now.Apple with Big Sur and Monterey have pushed OS design too far ahead. None of the suggestions you have made will work.

There are some solutions that are now actively being worked on. I hope they work out, otherwise the Amiga world is going to get steam rollers.

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agami 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 3:50:28
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1010
From: Melbourne, Australia

Piggy-backing on top of other open source operating systems and kernels is about the only "life-boat" option remaining.

Also, just to be absolutely clear. Anybody who these days dumps on PPC Amiga streams, myself included, only does half as much as @ppcamiga1 dumps on 68k, AGA, Vampire FPGA, AROS x86 and UAE.

UAE is not a port of Amiga OS 3.x to x86. It is an application running on top of another operating system primarily intended to enjoy the past, so of course there would be very little interest in developing new software to run in such an environment.

Porting any Amiga OS, or its cousins, to x86 would naturally "die on the vine" if the port did not also bring new and improved development tools and modern sub-systems. If you don't make it easy for developers to bring their software to the platform, then very few will.

Porting AmigaOS 4 to x86 at this point is no longer worth the cost. Lots of work with minimal benefits. I look forward to seeing how far the MorphOS team has progressed with their x86 port, but of course I am not holding my breath.

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michalsc 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 6:01:07
#11 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 326
From: Germany

@Karlos

Quote:
I'm pretty sure it's a troll post.


Of course it is a troll post. Still, I don't like misspelling my name on purpose.

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paolone 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 7:20:26
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

That's a quite weird post for several reasons.

You blame who "attacks AmigaOS 4 on PPC" while asking to port either a "clone" of AmigaOS 4 on x86, which is exactly why some other people "attacks AmigaOS 4 on PPC" and the exact reason nobody in the sane IT world gives 2 cents of consideration to its existence: it's pointless.

You ask somebody to do something it's already been available for YEARS in the shape of AROS, or currently developed like AXRuntime. By the way, AXRuntime is EXACTLY the nearest EXISTING thing to what you're asking for.

All the other requests might have already been fullfilled, if only YOU AND OTHER SILLY PEOPLE LIKE YOU stopped acting like whiners, haters, morons and trolls, and HELPED DEVELOPING AROS. You didn't even notice your attitude helped letting many interesting projects die. Now it's just too late to cry.

Get a life, really.

Last edited by paolone on 06-May-2022 at 09:47 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 9:57:38
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@michalsc

I was Schicklgruber for him on morphzone... I had to google first because I have some knowledge with history but was not a expert with Hitlers family like him

at least I am now "shonweiss"... almost correct

@ppcamiga1

I do not know why you attack michal, me and others. We say (in discussions) PPC is dead end on desktop. That is obvious if you look at the thousands of new PPC desktops that are sold today... Nobody of us has access or rights to AmigaOS4 so even if Michal (or others) wanted, they could not port it. It currently belongs to Ben H. and he is in a long lawsuit with Cloanto about it, no end to see. And even then there are obviously different views if it is legal to port parts of OS4 to other platforms. But that could theoretically be solved with money. So ask Hyperion about it, not people outside who are not involved.

And what you ask is currently in development. Deadwood with his AxRuntime is exactly doing it. Zune is already supported, he also showed the aros shell and other applications. Hopefully also Scalos will work on it and it will be possible to combine AxRuntime compiled components, Aros 64bit and Linux together. I want to go in that direction, currently I work on Scalos as desktop on Aros 68k and test Scalos on X86 (you can simply copy pref files from one platform to the other) to get experience with it and then (when possible) do Aros Vision Linux distribution. And if Zune now is 100% compatible to 3.8 or not, I do not really care. A number of MUI applications work with it, some not but who cares...

BTW Michal is doing a great job with emu68 (PiStorm), might not be your interest but a lot of people like it.

So all people you attacked are indeed doing something, what are your contributions to OS4 exactly?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-May-2022 at 10:01 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-May-2022 at 09:59 AM.

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Karlos 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 9:59:30
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2757
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@agami

Quote:

Piggy-backing on top of other open source operating systems and kernels is about the only "life-boat" option remaining.

Also, just to be absolutely clear. Anybody who these days dumps on PPC Amiga streams, myself included, only does half as much as @ppcamiga1 dumps on 68k, AGA, Vampire FPGA, AROS x86 and UAE.

UAE is not a port of Amiga OS 3.x to x86. It is an application running on top of another operating system primarily intended to enjoy the past, so of course there would be very little interest in developing new software to run in such an environment.


Realising that AmigaOS as a product of a bygone era is key to finding inner peace on all of this. It's a single-user, non SMP, non memory protected OS from the days when personal computing really meant personal and you weren't constantly worrying about the tide of malware that is present in today's ever connected world. The desire to change it so that it can be more "modern" and "mainstream" is just the worst kind of hubris in my view. You'd destroy all the charm for almost none of the benefit. Being able to run it on non-obsoleted hardware is the only sensible part of the suggestion.

Projects like AxRuntime allow you to run recompiled Amiga applications on a modern underlying operating system which is cool. However, one question I do have here is, which software is that, that doesn't already have perfectly good native solutions already?

Quote:
Porting any Amiga OS, or its cousins, to x86 would naturally "die on the vine" if the port did not also bring new and improved development tools and modern sub-systems. If you don't make it easy for developers to bring their software to the platform, then very few will.


The challenge to porting to x64 as it stands is primarily that non-obsolescence at a hardware level is all it would offer. The changes required to make AmigaOS support SMP and/or 64 bit are already a challenge unaddressed on hardware that it can already run on.

In any case, AROS is already there and has been for a long time, but in my opinion lacks a clear focus. And that's fine given that it's free. However, if you ported a non-free OS to x64, at the very least we would expect seamless support for existing 68K and PPC binaries. This would be it's only killer feature since every other x64 OS out there of any note already supports 64 bit and SMP and most of them are free.

Quote:
Porting AmigaOS 4 to x86 at this point is no longer worth the cost. Lots of work with minimal benefits. I look forward to seeing how far the MorphOS team has progressed with their x86 port, but of course I am not holding my breath.


I'd rather see it backported to 68K than forwards to x64 directly. Which ought to be less effort than porting it to PPC was or to x86 would be.

Last edited by Karlos on 06-May-2022 at 10:00 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 10:09:25
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@Karlos

you see that wrong... of course linux world does not "wait" on aros to get to a higher level. But getting f.e. scalos working on linux would make it possible to do something new and lift user experience for amiga users to a new level. You could get nearest to a modern system with modern apps and look&feel of amiga, much more than just using a linux desktop and configure it. That is what I would like to go with Aros Vision then. Where it all will go who knows. It is for me the beginning of a journey where you not knows the destination of the journey like it was when I started with Aros 68k and experimenting with combining it with Amiga software and components. So first step would be "NG done right" making something interesting and useable for current NG users and hopefully also former amiga users who might be interested in it. How to reach the rest I do not know currently and have no plan yet but time will tell

Last edited by OlafS25 on 06-May-2022 at 10:14 AM.

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Karlos 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 10:26:57
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2757
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@OlafS25

What you are describing here though is essentially another Linux distro and they are legion already. One that has an Amiga look and feel and can run a selection of recompiled application (which you can already do). One that will require at least the same level of continuous vendor maintenance that every other Linux distro needs in order to remain up to date, secure and relevant.

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OlafS25 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 10:30:46
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@Karlos

I would like to use a existing distribution as base and add it upon it. But we will see. I always do something primarly for personal interest and "only" second to make everybody else happy. What is not possible anyway.

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Karlos 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 11:06:13
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2757
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@OlafS25

And that's fine. I don't think it changes the observation that there's no "core focus" in AROS, it's driven by people wanting to do whatever they want with it. Which is the point of it being free software, really.

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OlafS25 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 11:17:06
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@Karlos

of course... people do what they want. And sometimes something really useful comes from it, sometimes not

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deadwood 
Re: Port AmigaOS 4 to x86
Posted on 6-May-2022 11:25:05
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 410
From: Unknown

@Karlos

Quote:
Projects like AxRuntime allow you to run recompiled Amiga applications on a modern underlying operating system which is cool. However, one question I do have here is, which software is that, that doesn't already have perfectly good native solutions already?


Most likely answer is: none. But I do choose using WookieChat on my LinuxMint as my IRC client to connect to #amigaworld and I do choose using MUI MPlayer for listening to internet radio. I do this to get a portion of warm, fuzzy feeling of bygone era, while at the same time maintaining productivity using for example Visual Studio Code. It's not really logical. It's emotional. It's a hobby after all.

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