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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga News & Events
      /  AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
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PosterThread
Hans 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 27-Oct-2022 1:35:06
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4993
From: New Zealand

@abalaban

Quote:

abalaban wrote:
@kas1e

Thank you for your answer. I admit that I am lost with all these gfx related systems. So if I am not not misunderstood to have Novabridge running I need all the following:
* latest Enhancer pack to have all nova libraries,

Yes. NovaBridge uses Warp3D Nova, so you need Warp3D Nova

Quote:
* RadeonHD 5 driver (if I am using SI chipset)

No. RadeonHD.chip v3.x should be more than good enough. The v5 driver is needed for hardware video decoding, and if you want GART & power management.

Quote:
* Novabridge (obviously)

Correct. With System V54 it'll all be bundled together and all this confusion will disappear. In the meantime, it's available separately for those who don't want to wait (which is anyone wanting to enjoy older 3D games/apps).

[quoteAm I forgetting something?[/quote]
No.

Quote:
Additionally if I will need Rewarp libraries but I was under the impression that it was the purpose of Novabridge to wrap Warp3D calls to Nova. Please can you detail?

That's if you want to run old WarpOS games like WipeOut 2097. ReWarp enables you to run WarpOS software on OS4. You'll also need ReWarp3DPPC, which really should be bundled with ReWarp. Actually, IMHO ReWarp & ReWarp3DPPC should be a standard part of the OS.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Hans 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 27-Oct-2022 1:40:21
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4993
From: New Zealand

@all

I've put together a small summary of my AmiWest presentation here. You can watch the actual presentation there too.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 27-Oct-2022 4:50:25
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Here you continue on the same way and now you're forcing me to become a bit more brutal: your sentence doesn't apply on the real world, because things work very different from your hyperuranium.

I don't accept the dismissive and defeatist attitude of the magic wand statements.
I am certainly talking about the real world, and I stand by what I said.

I have been on this merry-go-round before with people who think in terms of constrained engineering. We peel the proverbial onion one layer at a time, and in the end we reach the point where the engineer in question resorts to statements such as "yeah, but no one is going to do that" or "that would require millions of dollars".

Your limited experience cannot be generalized. You don't have full knowledge of everything that allows you to resort to always the same solution to any problem: money and men.
Quote:
Quote:
It's clearly evident that you completely lack knowledge on Computability theory, otherwise you should have known that exist even problems which aren't calculable.

That's not what we are facing here with the SMP challenge for running AmigaOS 4 apps, or SMP for running AROS apps.

You made a precise statement (NOT related to the above) in that context and you got my precise answer.

I assume that you have no degree in Computer Science and you had no chance to study Computability theory. This is absolutely evident from your answer, because you don't know some famous (in the branch of Mathematics / Computer Science) theorems and their implications.
Quote:
Quote:
But even outside of Computer Science your sentence doesn't apply. Think about traveling back and forth from the past/future, traveling faster than the light, going inside a black hole and going back, resurrecting people, etc. etc. You got my point, I think.

I get the point where you are approaching these as an engineer of the early 21C.
Nothing you have presented are actual impossibilities.

GOSH. Delirium of omnipotence or simply megalomania?
Quote:
But lets leave the inner workings of our universe aside. SMP for AmigaOS/AROS is not challenging the limits of our collective knowledge of astrophysics and the nature of existence.

Sure: it's challenging the limits of the Amiga o.s. and its "derivatives".
Quote:
Quote:
How? Do you know how the Amiga o.s. works and how its applications are running? What kind of "dirty" (but perfectly "legal", since Commodore allowed it) things they could do?

I know enough about how Amiga OS works, and more than enough about how software works. How exactly would I make it work? That requires some workshopping with a team and a couple whiteboards. There's likely several ways to solve this problem, all of which require hard work, and no magic.

I beg di disagree: this is your usual statement about any problem.
Quote:
Quote:
First you've to see if this is possible and how.
As I've said, AROS x64/SMP has the same issues since years and they were never being fixed.
OS4 is facing exactly the same issues.
Do you think that it's a pure coincidence?

As I've said, with technology all things are possible.

Again, you don't know of what you talk about. This universe has its rules (whatever they are), its limits, and you cannot escape them.

But even strictly limiting ourselves on the Computer Science branch, there are things which cannot be done. And there are also THEORISMS which prove it and that you clearly ignore (otherwise you never have written your statement).

Finally, there are even practical problems in Computer Science that cannot have general solutions.
Quote:
The fact that the small AmigaOS team, and the unknown number of people attempting to work it in AROS have not yet made this work is in no way commentary on the solvability of the problem.

This is the only thing where I agree: it cannot be a general, ironclad prove of it.
Quote:
It's not a coincidence because both efforts share in common key shortcomings:
- the lack of a larger pool of talented developers
- the lack of adequate funding to pay for the hard work required.

We can certainly agree that the problem is beyond the practical capabilities of the existing teams, especially given the low funding or free voluntary work.

I've a strong feeling that this isn't the case.
Quote:
We can even agree that trying to make existing AmigaOS 4 or AROS perform SMP is not possible without a complete re-architecture and re-write of the OS. But that doesn't mean that it can't be made to work.

Indeed. In fact, this means that NOW you're changing the card on the table...
Quote:
And by "it" I mean the running of modern AmigaOS 4/AROS software and old 68k software, running on a system that is able to distribute and balance the concurrent running of said software across the available compute resources of their given system, without clashing/crashing.

Do it with the CURRENT software library: this is The Challenge here.

Everything else is changing the cards on the table. Which is NOT required according to YOUR OWN definition:

with technology all things are possible.

By elementary logic, if this is true then you don't need to change the problem and should be able to solve the original one. Right?

Please, go on: I'm building the machine which gives unlimited popcorn.

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pavlor 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 27-Oct-2022 15:37:40
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9431
From: Unknown

Thanks all for videos and summaries!


Tabor release in Q1 2023 seems too close to believe (after so many years of waiting...), time to select a GFX card (until these are all sold out, RX 550, I'm looking at you!).

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 28-Oct-2022 0:06:57
#85 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
Thanks all for videos and summaries!

Tabor release in Q1 2023 seems too close to believe (after so many years of waiting...), time to select a GFX card (until these are all sold out, RX 550, I'm looking at you!).



YES! FINALLY!

Time to go find of those Radeon cards from 2017,
to run the 1.2 ghz machine you have been waiting for about 8 years,
with its emulated FPU unit!!

Trevor has definitely not, in any way, brainwashed you nimrods.
No no,
not at all!








/mega



_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

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V8 
Re: AmiWest 2022: October 20 - October 24, 2022
Posted on 28-Oct-2022 0:26:00
#86 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 68
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:
Yeah, a bunch of us were confused as to why this would be done. No one sees the 'value-add' for the customer, TBH; but that's true of many Enhancer components replacing the AOS4 ones. I'm sure there's a reason beyond having more ownership of system elements, and that will eventually be explained.


It is very simple. Everytime an os4 component is replaced with something else by AEONkit you just have to ask yourself the simple question : Is the component contaminated by Hermans?

That will explain everything.
System54 is not finished until every single line of code that has been contaminated by Hyperion/Hermans has been removed.

Last edited by V8 on 28-Oct-2022 at 12:41 AM.

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