@NutsAboutAmiga

I am talking about the situation today. And most of the last decade, if we are honest.

Quote:

Going x86 was not option

Cough *amithlon* cough.

Last edited by Karlos on 10-Jun-2023 at 07:56 PM.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Cough *amithlon* cough.

Just "UAE" with chipset emulation removed.

Yes, some support for x86, but really is not lot things compiled for it, so my guess is its not that simple.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jun-2023 at 09:50 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Don't take this the wrong way, but if that's your opinion of Amithlon, you have clearly never once used it or seen it in use. It's a constant BS trope perpetuated by the misinformed and those that never came to terms with the fact that x86 (later x64) won so comprehensively in the desktop segment. Now it's ARMs turn and maybe tomorrow RISC V. You need to learn a fundamental lesson that hardware doesn't actually have to matter.

Amithlon could not be less like UAE, especially at that time*. Latency was basically non existent and the raw emulation performance on the same machine was easily a factor of two or more than UAE. This was largely down to how it worked, the modified Linux kernel existed as a kind of suprafirmware for the emulation and almost everything else ran on under AmigaOS. You can make parallels with PiStorm today, except the latter works with your legacy hardware.

*I know because I ran it at th same time I had a functional A1XE "fixed". Amithlon was capable of running 68K code faster than my A1 ran the same code compiled for PPC, on a PC costing a fraction what the A1 cost. This was a watershed moment really. Why bother with PPC code when it emulated 68K at near native speed thanks to mature JIT and 68K runs on, well, everything else? The whole idea that 68K should be the Lingua Franca for the Amiga happened right there when I was running several real 68K machines, PPC machine and an x86 one and my 68K code worked perfectly on each.

Anyway, getting off topic. Anyone can fork the repo and start making changes but the goal is to remain compatible - and playable, on 030/50

Last edited by Karlos on 10-Jun-2023 at 10:06 PM.
Last edited by Karlos on 10-Jun-2023 at 10:03 PM.

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@Karlos

out of curiosity since Vampire systems supposedly is exact as real classic amigas with rtg and fast cpu that is compatible with 020. is it working on those? anyone tested it?

nox

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@noXLar

I think so. I'm sure someone on the EAB thread tested it but don't quote me.

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Back on topic, there's a work in progress set of changes to my mod that aims to improve performance on lower end machines by replacing many of the vector pickups (that to be fair, I added in the first place) with simple bitmaps. Unlike the original game, these are super simple icons similar those that can be optionally enabled in Quake 3. Quake 3 does it to improve visibility more than anything but here they should help improve performance on slower 68K systems.

Anyone interested in trying that out can try it from here: https://github.com/0xABADCAFE/karlos-tkg/tree/misc/redesign

Don't extract it over an existing installation, it relies on moving some files into subdirectories that are assign added to the main one by the launch script.

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@Karlos

I tested RTG version on A1200+BPPC+BVision with AOS4 and it passes then misc.resource, passes RTG screen requester and enters in first menu to start playing.

However its crashes with some kernel/kickkstart error (it shows frame of the game but not content).

So you are right - removing misc.resource will just uncover more and more things and there is absolutely no need for this. PPC users can run it trought EUAE.

However... I just HAD to try it..... if you know what I mean

-dooz

@dooz

Sure. It will become more system friendly over time and perhaps it will run directly on the host OS. There's a lot to do for that to become a reality though.

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@dooz

How about the non RTG version?

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@Karlos

I like the new build and can already see more blue/red colour schemes = class Star Wars/Space Odyssey feel now! I like the version selector and all is good. Weirdly though it still only works with my OS3.1 partition on my 060 RTG Classic and not OS3.5 or OS3.9!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Jun-2023 at 11:32 AM.

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@BigD

Red and blue have a lot of shades in the palette, which is why I ended up using them as lighting variations. When life gives you lemons and all that.

Maybe raise an issue on the main mheyer/alienbreed3d2 repo for the incompatibility problems. It would help if you could include all your RTG component versions too.

Last edited by Karlos on 11-Jun-2023 at 02:42 PM.

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I've come back to Level H and began the slow process of redesigning the arena area. All the existing monsters are removed as I wanted to break it down from one large static space filled with already patrolling monsters into something slower and more deliberate.

Work in progress (mostly idea testing) https://youtu.be/2Qrl6naOw3k

This is a pistol start with no HUD because the ammo/health values don't yet render in RTG mode...

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Level J redone: The Research Labs

https://youtu.be/EPvDHHh-ipQ

Pistol start, 200HP, no HUD. Well, there is a HUD but it's not working in RTG mode yet lol. Makes for a more intense experience IMO.

It you plan to play it, this video contains spoilers.

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@Karlos

Cheers! I downloaded your GitHub Code Download gubbins at 22:33 so inadvertently got you bang up to date version i hope!

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@BigD

Probably. Is it working with your CaffeineOS again?

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@Karlos

Have been at the Kickstart Expo and not had time to set everything back up yet! I will let you know.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga Don't take this the wrong way, but if that's your opinion of Amithlon, you have clearly never once used it or seen it in use. It's a constant BS trope perpetuated by the misinformed and those that never came to terms with the fact that x86 (later x64) won so comprehensively in the desktop segment. Now it's ARMs turn and maybe tomorrow RISC V. You need to learn a fundamental lesson that hardware doesn't actually have to matter. Amithlon could not be less like UAE, especially at that time*. Latency was basically non existent and the raw emulation performance on the same machine was easily a factor of two or more than UAE. This was largely down to how it worked, the modified Linux kernel existed as a kind of suprafirmware for the emulation and almost everything else ran on under AmigaOS. You can make parallels with PiStorm today, except the latter works with your legacy hardware. *I know because I ran it at th same time I had a functional A1XE "fixed". Amithlon was capable of running 68K code faster than my A1 ran the same code compiled for PPC, on a PC costing a fraction what the A1 cost. This was a watershed moment really. Why bother with PPC code when it emulated 68K at near native speed thanks to mature JIT and 68K runs on, well, everything else? The whole idea that 68K should be the Lingua Franca for the Amiga happened right there when I was running several real 68K machines, PPC machine and an x86 one and my 68K code worked perfectly on each. Anyway, getting off topic. Anyone can fork the repo and start making changes but the goal is to remain compatible - and playable, on 030/50

Unlike Amithlon,

1. PiStorm-Emu68-RPi combo was able to bring C='s Amiga chipsets along for the ride just as modern X86-64 PC with UEFI Class 2 can still run MS-DOS and Southbridge's LPC still has ISA bus e.g. AMD Promontory/Bixby FCH - LPC Bridge (PCI standard ISA bridge). AMD Promontory/Bixby FCH - LPC Bridge is a clone of the 66 Mhz capable PCI standard ISA bridge.

The LPC header needs an ISA bus adapter to present a physical ISA bus. A modern PC UEFI Class 2 is still IBM PC compatible.

Intel has released an X86S white paper to completely remove legacy 16bit X86 and is pushing for UEFI Class 3. Intel has executed multiple attempts to kill legacy 16bit X86.

For the Amiga context, Minimig 1.97itx cloned Amiga 500's chipset and 68000 socket-based expandability that allows it to exploit current and future CPU/RTG accelerators like a real Amiga 500.

2. Emu68 doesn't run on multitasking and memory-protected Linux. 68K AmigaOS is the kernel OS. Emu68 continues to enforce Amiga 68K AutoConfig subsystem rules for RTG graphics and Fast RAM memory expansion.

Emu68 is focused on CPU instruction set translation like Transmeta's Code Morph software.

3. PiStorm Emu68 and Musashi still allows hit-the-metal Amiga chipset programs.

Amithlon tried to be Apple style migration approach with the X86-64.

Emu68 follows Transmeta's Code Morph software approach while AMD/Intel has hardware-accelerated CPU instruction set translation.

"68K" is not enough.

Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jul-2023 at 06:49 AM.

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@noXLar

Quote:

noXLar wrote: @Karlos out of curiosity since Vampire systems supposedly is exact as real classic amigas with rtg and fast cpu that is compatible with 020. is it working on those? anyone tested it? nox

The Vampire and Apollo teams made good attempts at cloning the Amiga and 68K hardware and improving upon it, but they didn't clone Commodore's expandability design that is inherent in the real Amiga. PC clones have cloned IBM PC's expandability.

I prefer the next Apollo Amiga clone to include the A1200 expansion bus that can enable the base platform to exploit any current and future A1200 CPU/RTG accelerators.

Vampire 4 Stand-Alone is a dead-end device just like any other mobile phone.

I prefer the combined Minimig VER 1.97itx with Apollo SAGA and ACA500plus's A1200 expansion bus ideas.

Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jul-2023 at 06:32 AM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hammer Well, if AGA was any good every company (AMD, Nvidia, Intel) be lining up to license or replicate the technology, if you read few post up you notice that FPS increased by adding support for RTG. The AmigaONE are more modern designs, sure that comes with few problems.

FYI, AMD's and NVIDIA's latest GPUs still support legacy VGA BIOS.

Intel's ARC does not support legacy BIOS VGA and is dead for retro PC. Fuk Intel. Intel's Itanium mentality still exists with Intel.

AGA is Amiga's legacy just like the latest AMD/NVIDIA GPUs have legacy VGA.

Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jul-2023 at 06:44 AM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @Hammer There is no "neo Amiga PowerPC" hardware. There are PPC machines that run PPC native evolutions of the operating system. The only Amiga hardware with PPC processors are classic machines with aftermarket PPC accelerator boards. Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with NG. I just don't understand the obsession with making 68K software PPC native when said systems already run system friendly 68K software perfectly well.

My "neo Amiga PowerPC" comment was referring to PowerPC-based "AmigaOne".

https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Cloanto%20Corporation%20%20
There's an AmigaOne trademark dispute between HYPERION ENTERTAINMENT C.V.B.A vs Cloanto Corporation / Amiga Corporation.

Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jul-2023 at 07:03 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)