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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Serious FFS-problems (New developments 2)
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OldFart 
Serious FFS-problems (New developments 2)
Posted on 12-Sep-2022 9:46:39
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

Hi

I've got serious problems with an FFS (DOS3) partition. What are my options in eventual repair/recovery?

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 17-Sep-2022 at 02:37 PM.
Last edited by OldFart on 17-Sep-2022 at 12:21 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 12-Sep-2022 11:10:20
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10826
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OldFart

What machine are you on?

If an Amiga then DisSalv would be a good starting point.

If an Amiga with OS3.2.1 then the included DiskDoctor would be a good starter.

If an OS4 machine then PartitionWizard would be the go, but if on OS4.1 FE and later you need the Enhancer variant for it to work.

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sananaman 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 9:37:12
#3 ]
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Joined: 28-Sep-2006
Posts: 252
From: Netherlands

@OldFart

I've been in this situation many times since OFS.

Be very careful with DISKSALVE it will almost always damage more. This tool tries to repair things which should not be done on a broken volume.
You also don't not know what it exactly does.
My experience is that even when it does "analysis" it can damage more.

First steps to do with disk recovery is:
1) Disconnect the drive from the Amiga
2) Duplicate the drive using a PC and extract a disk image on a safe place (in the past I used GetDataBack, but you can use any disk imaging tools)
Note: If the disk is physically damaged it will probably not help
4) You could use a copy of this image in WinUAE and start trying out the tool that works best for your situation.
I have used AmiBackTools back in the day and it saved a whole bunch.
5) If it fails on that image you can retry with something else.
Note: Now that you even have a copy image you can try DISKSALVE .

To summarize 1) make a Disk Image 2) go for AMI BACK TOOLS first.

Last edited by sananaman on 13-Sep-2022 at 01:22 PM.

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jPV 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 9:44:15
#4 ]
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Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 764
From: .fi

@OldFart

In the old times, when I still had FFS partitions under their original limits (2GB partition/4GB drive), I got the best fixing results with ABTools (Ami Back Tools). It delivered always while DiskSalv just took ages with less results. But in any case, make an image backup of the drive before doing anything.

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BigD 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 9:56:42
#5 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
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From: UK

@OldFart

DiskMon Tools works with partitions over 4gb but takes forever! It did its job though.

Last edited by BigD on 13-Sep-2022 at 10:07 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 13-Sep-2022 at 10:04 AM.

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thomas 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 11:25:31
#6 ]
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Joined: 28-May-2003
Posts: 1139
From: Germany

@OldFart
Quote:

What are my options in eventual repair/recovery?


The most important thing to think about at first is: is there still data on the partition which you need?

If yes, avoid repair by all means. Try every program you can find to rescue/salvage the needed data to another partition or harddrive.

Only if all needed data is in a safe place, then you might attempt a repair.

The repair is a one-time action which makes the partition available again, whatever it costs. The parts of the partition which where hidden by the error before might then be lost beyond recovery.

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BigD 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 11:53:58
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6620
From: UK

@thomas

I'll second that. I lost some files using repair on DiskMon Tools but had the data backup up so it wasn't so much of a concern on that occasion!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 16:41:54
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@OldFart

Many of repair tools can destroy your data, or trash the first 4Gbytes, don’t use any tool that do not support TD64 or NSD64, and make sure your devices are patched (AmigaOS3.5/OS3.9), or use OS that has devices with 64bit TD64 or NSD64 support, like AmigaOS3.1.4 or AmigaOS3.2. Some viruses attack the disk-validator, this can be cause of corruption. Run a virus checker. disk imaging tools mostly useless on AmigaOS, as the filesystems do not use relative block offsets, as result you cannot restore image at any given location, it has to be exact same location on dive.

If your system stops, and you can’t access some files, it might be the disk-validator trying to repair your drive, for goodness’s sake let it finish.

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OldFart 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 16:42:36
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@thomas

Quote:
The most important thing to think about at first is: is there still data on the partition which you need?
Well, the partition in question was called "Development" and it was called so for a very good reason: ALL sources of my projects are on it. You will most certainly get the gist of the importance of its contents.

Last weekend I had made some very large and interesting strides again with a number of my projects, except for one nagging problem which I had intended to address and preferrably solve on a later moment. I tried this on Modaymorning and after saving the file I got a message from the FS (FFS DOS3) about an address not being available. From that moment onwards the partition was corrupt.

But which sane person uses FFS for such diskintensive tasks like development with its numerous crashes and fileupdates? Well, it all started in late 2021 when the then current version of the Development partition, using SFS2, gave troubles. That partition is still on the drive and has been renamed "Broken Dev SFS2" and is not shown on WB.

The contents of that partition for as far as still accessible had been transferred to a partition which uses NGF. However after having made significant updates and changes to my projects, at one time I probably switched the computer off a bit to early thereby possibly corrupting the filesystem. Currently I maintain a healthy exchange of emails with the author of NGFylesystem: Tony Wyatt.
That partition is now called "Broken Dev NGF1".

In the meantime I had set up (yet!) another partition to move accessible development stuff over to. This time I had opted for FFS (DOS3) as the filesystem of choice.

In short I now have 3 corrupt Development partitions using 3 different filesystems.

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 13-Sep-2022 at 04:43 PM.

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OldFart 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 16:58:53
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@NutsAboutAmiga

My fault: I should have stated that I'm on x5k using OS4.1 u2.

OldFart

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OldFart 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 17:01:58
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@Hypex

Quote:
If an Amiga with OS3.2.1 then the included DiskDoctor would be a good starter.
I'm on a X5k using OS 4.1 u2. DiskDoctor is an integral part of the archive.
But it crashes halfway the process of both COPY and CHECK, so is of not much use.

OldFart

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Hypex 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 17:24:52
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10826
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OldFart

Okay. While DOS3 is allowed on OS4 it's not OS4 compliant. The minimum FFS accepted for use on OS4 would be DOS7 LongNames. The only exception would be if you needed it to be compatible with classic Amigas or were sharing a volume with Linux.

Therefore, Partition Wizard would be the one for the job. But unless you have Enhancer or bought it separately (if it can be) the version included with FE is broken.

You've found yourself in the trap of using SFS2. For some reason it's very popular but I don't know why. People must store lots of 64 bit sized files greater then 4GB on their AmigaOne machines. It's the only redeeming feature of SFS2 I can think of. Because it has absolutely no recovery tools. If it's corrupted and files won't copy off it you've practically lost everything. The fies are still there but lack a medium to extract them.

While you are salvaging the files you may try an SFS1 partition as an option to salvage them to. Yes it's limited to 4GB files. But it's faster than FFS. Way faster than DOS3 FFS. And most importantly has recovery tools.

https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/UserDoc:AmigaOS_File_Systems

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 17:50:23
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@Hypex

True there is no recovery tool for SFS2, but I believe in storing a copy of different partition on different hard drive. Maybe backup using AmiDVD is my advice, if you want make disk image.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Sep-2022 at 07:33 PM.

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Deniil715 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 13-Sep-2022 20:31:25
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@OldFart

If you made that many different partitions that all failed on the (same?) drive, I would replace that harddisk!

Since I went away from FFS I have never had any harddisk troubles. PFS, AFS, SFS. They just run, for decades!

Backups are also nice
I have two physical disks in my X1000 where I use scheduled backups from the primary to the secondary. Then I have a third drive at work (different location in case of fire etc.) that I bring home from time to time to sync up.
I also have a USB-drive somewhere to which I also back the most important stuff occasionally.

But since I'm not using FFS, I don't have any troubles so far

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Hypex 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 14-Sep-2022 17:39:53
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10826
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Yes I used AmiDVD a bit back in the day. These days my partions grow larger than 50GB.

I do have two Bluray drives so I could effectively use FryingPan to backup 25 to 50GB of data. If it can burn a blu disc.

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OldFart 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 12:20:53
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@All

New developments and no I'm not happy! Far from!

So I went out the other day to get myself a new disk. A conventional, spinning contraption of a hefty 1Tb, to replace my 80Gb drive with its assortment of failing partitions. That drive had still 55Gb left unpartitioned, so you can imagine how I feel with that 1Tb-thingy. But it was all to make sure that the drive is no longer suspect.

I spent a lot of time piecing my developments together again and was happily going through the codebase again, making all kinds of updates and improvements. With the new drive in use what could ever go wrong?

Well, whatever it was that went wrong, it resulted in just 2 more days of waisted effort as again my newly created "Development"-partition crashed.

That now brings the tally 4 broken development partitions. I'm off to get me some beer and seriously going to look for another pastime. This is maddening!

Frustration galore.

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 17-Sep-2022 at 12:34 PM.

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OldFart 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 14:44:49
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 3009
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@OldFart

New Development (2):

The first broken NGF-partition is now recovered and moved over to the new harddisk. Twice: both SFS\0 and NGF\1 are now used. Just in case, you know.

This leaves me now with 3 broke partitions (again/still):
- "Broken Dev SFS2"
- An unmounted partition using DOS3
- "Broken Dev NGF1 (2)"

OldFart

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jPV 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 20:08:23
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 764
From: .fi

@OldFart

Quote:

OldFart wrote:

I spent a lot of time piecing my developments together again and was happily going through the codebase again, making all kinds of updates and improvements. With the new drive in use what could ever go wrong?

Well, whatever it was that went wrong, it resulted in just 2 more days of waisted effort as again my newly created "Development"-partition crashed.

Maybe you have buggy code that trashes memory and writing to HD will trash the filesystem too? :)

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Hypex 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 19-Sep-2022 15:07:57
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10826
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OldFart

You've done well if you survived on that smaller space. I tended to outgrow it with the 80GB and 160GB drives on my XE. Must be almost ten years since I bought the Samsung 2TB HDD for my X1000 which is still going well. Most reliable HDD I've had and now HDD drives are almost superseded by SSD.

So, how did it crash? Mechanical fault or file-system error? Be good to check it with the SMART utility but on OS4 it's an awkward CLI command.

If it's new something is wrong. A new drive should last longer. Have you got some new SATA cables with it? The ones with clips are best for a solid connection. And also check your battery if it's been in there for a while as they can cause all manner of issues. As well as RAM if it's been there for a while.

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Deniil715 
Re: Serious FFS-problems
Posted on 19-Sep-2022 18:59:19
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@OldFart

Quote:
That drive had still 55Gb left unpartitioned, so you can imagine how I feel with that 1Tb-thingy.


Well, since it doesn't waste any physical space nor material, it really dosen't matter, but I get your feeling

So it seems something else might be trashing your data. Check cabling and memory, as people said, and make sure you're not trashing it with your own code :)

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