Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6072 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
13 crawler(s) on-line.
 46 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 amigakit:  16 mins ago
 AMIGASYSTEM:  42 mins ago
 kolla:  47 mins ago
 pixie:  50 mins ago
 zipper:  1 hr 17 mins ago
 Gunnar:  1 hr 18 mins ago
 PhantomInterrogative:  1 hr 23 mins ago
 Hypex:  1 hr 25 mins ago
 Amiboy:  1 hr 34 mins ago
 clint:  1 hr 35 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 1:48:46
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11151
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
So less than 5 years, and during those years, a whole team made sure OSX kept running well also on x86, code name "Marklar".


And for PPC as a whole it was with Apple for a good ten years at least. It helped them transition off 68K. Made sense of the Power Mac naming scheme. And was there when they replaced MacOS with OSX. I think PowerPC was good for Apple.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 14:43:44
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11151
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
I don't see how using multiple cores helps the emulation of a scalar, single core processor*. The opportunity for instruction parallelism is too small. You could emulate a number of 68K cores concurrently, pinning each to a core, but then you'd need an OS with SMP running on it to make use of it. 68K Linux would be a candidate but I don't think there's much demand.


It's mainly to optimise the emulation on the CPU hardware. So not to give the 68K a virtual multicore environment but making use of CPU features to run more efficiently. So in this case making use of CPU cores as a whole to speed up emulation. The idea would be to take advantage of native core registers and spread the 68K register load across native cores using hardware parallelism. The only issue is that it would need tight integration between cores and hardware level core to core data transfer ability. If memory is still needed to transfer data between cores then it isn't as effective and wouldn't be practical.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 16:09:52
#123 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

Apple use ppc 11 years from 1994 to 2005.
It was slow evolution. Always was smooth transition between stages.
First it was 7.x it was like something like warpup/powerup.
Then 9.x like mos/Amiga Os 4.x.
Then start swith to unix with carbon apps that run on classic and unix.
After that full unix.
Apple first solve problems with memory protection and endianess on ppc then swithc to x86.
it was slow evolution step by step.
That's way it works.
On Amiga too many idiots attack powerpc.
thay want to do it too fast.
spread anti ppc propaganda bullshit so we stay at something like Mac Os 9.x.



 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 16:10:41
#124 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

many emulated cores. it is stupid.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tiw1 
Dv player/emotion
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 18:39:36
#125 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2018
Posts: 30
From: Unknown

@CosmosUnivers

Anyone know the difference between these 2, thank you

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
terminills 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 31-Jan-2023 18:43:06
#126 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@kolla


yeah I know that was me having my head up my arse. ;D


Which Ironically the HP-PA ended up the Itanium route. And the Alpha engineers ended up being eaten by AMD and used on the Athlon bus design iirc.

Last edited by terminills on 31-Jan-2023 at 06:46 PM.

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
agami 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 1-Feb-2023 2:35:12
#127 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1617
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Apple use ppc 11 years from 1994 to 2005.
It was slow evolution. Always was smooth transition between stages.

Amiga used PPC for 25 years, from 1998 to present day.
The transition was glacier slow, with very little evolution.
AmigaOS 4.x has been on PPC for 19 years. How many transitions?

Quote:
On Amiga too many idiots attack powerpc.

I attack powerpc not because I'm an idiot, but because of the greater idiots that cling to it despite 2+ decades of an under-performing track record to move the Amiga scene into contemporary computing.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 2-Feb-2023 8:52:13
#128 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@agami

Amiga like solutions for x86/arm/riscv should be just Amiga gui and graphics.
Suprise, Hyperion don't have most important part which means MUI.
So you are wasting time for nothing.
Leave ppc as it is and start working on MUI clone with szulc, karlos, szonwejs and other morons.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 2-Feb-2023 20:13:29
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@Karlos

Quote:
I don't see how using multiple cores helps the emulation of a scalar, single core processor*. The opportunity for instruction parallelism is too small. You could emulate a number of 68K cores concurrently, pinning each to a core, but then you'd need an OS with SMP running on it to make use of it. 68K Linux would be a candidate but I don't think there's much demand.


It's mainly to optimise the emulation on the CPU hardware. So not to give the 68K a virtual multicore environment but making use of CPU features to run more efficiently. So in this case making use of CPU cores as a whole to speed up emulation. The idea would be to take advantage of native core registers and spread the 68K register load across native cores using hardware parallelism. The only issue is that it would need tight integration between cores and hardware level core to core data transfer ability. If memory is still needed to transfer data between cores then it isn't as effective and wouldn't be practical.


I genuinely don't see this working. Executing a sequential instruction stream seems like a hard problem to parallelise in software. I mean sure you can do it in hardware and real chips do this by having many execution units. I don't see a similar model working in a parallel software implementation on a multicore CPU though, I just see unmanageable and unpredictable latencies and synchronisation problems. Maybe I'm thinking about it in the wrong way.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 2-Feb-2023 20:19:04
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
 szulc, karlos, szonwejs and other morons


Lol. Sure, we're the morons. Show us anything you've ever developed. You claim to be a developer and that the only thing that matters for Amiga continuity is big endian 32 bit compatibility. I note you've been obsessing over chunky pixels of late. Did you forget the big endian 32 bit argument? It must be hard trying to hold onto two ideas in such a tiny mind at once.

Last edited by Karlos on 02-Feb-2023 at 08:19 PM.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 3-Feb-2023 8:47:41
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2809
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

MUI is nothing without Intuition… I repeat, MUI is NOT a GUI, it is a toolkit, a library and bunch of BOOPSI classes FOR Intuition, which is the GUI.

Btw - MUI goes open source and is merged into AROS, then what?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 3-Feb-2023 8:59:53
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2809
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

A long long time ago, I can still remember, how computers used to make me smile…

SMP was a new thing on home PCs, and UAE for Linux had an option aptly named —enable-penguins which put 68k emulation on one core and chipset etc emulation on the other. It was great for “system friendly” software, but not so great for old games etc. and eventually the feature vanished. It never made it into WinUAE I think.

But yes, the idea isn’t too bad - dedicate one core to 68k emulation and use other cores for emulating chipset and peripherals.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 3-Feb-2023 12:57:17
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

That's the intention for MC64K's host btw. It's not there yet.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 5-Feb-2023 8:51:12
#134 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@Karlos

amiga like solutions on x86, arm, riscv should be just amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
after 28 years of aros it is still not done.
start working on mui clone with szulc, szonwejs and other morons.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 5-Feb-2023 19:43:33
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2809
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

The AROS MUI clone already exists, and you know it - Zune. And it works with the Intuition implementation of AXRunTime, which is exactly what you say you want. So stop whining and start using!

"But but it’s not 100% compatible" you whine, because you tried it with…. what software exactly? On what hardware exactly? How long ago exactly?

The point is that Zune works with the MUI software that had been ported to x86/amd64/whatever, and if you are on AROS/68k or - gods forbid! - AROS/PPC - you can simply use *real* MUI.

But you should really get in touch with the ApolloOS team, ss they announced that they’re including an open source MUI.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 5-Feb-2023 20:11:18
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ppcamiga1

Damn, you're right! I'll jump right on it!

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 5-Feb-2023 20:13:16
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

Quote:
The AROS MUI clone already exists, and you know it - Zune. And it works with the Intuition implementation of AXRunTime, which is exactly what you say you want. So stop whining and start using!


This. This is exactly the thing he's asking for.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 6-Feb-2023 7:43:59
#138 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@Karlos

after so many years of development aros mui zune is still not compatible with good old mui 3.8 from 1997.
provide something working.

x86 and arm are job. no fun in it.
give something that will be good enough to sell it to our customers or give up.
something that will be as good as 20 years old os x or xp.
Amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.




 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 6-Feb-2023 11:40:45
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4343
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ppcamiga1

If you can't find a way to have fun with ARM and x64, the problem is squarely with you. Not that this has ever been in any doubt. x64 in particular has so much raw horsepower these days you can pretty much make your most absurd (developer) dreams come true.

IntuitionAmiga and myself jokingly discussed what a 64-bit 68K might be like if it ever existed. It wasn't many man hours before we'd designed it in principle and then I implemented it. Did I have fun? Absolutely. Is it still fun to tinker with? Absolutely. Is it of any commercial value? No. Of course, if you're deluded enough to think that the Amiga, in particular on PPC is of any commercial value on 2023, then I must reiterate, that problem lies with you. The Amiga is not and since the early-mid 90s has not been a commercial machine. It ended with commodore. Since then it's been an enthusiasts/hobby machine.

You claim to be a developer or at least you often make absurd claims like big endian and 32-bitness are some essential feature (when not talking about chunky pixels), despite the fact they you rarely have to even consider either problem in languages like C except when dealing with retrieval and storage of data.

So, w
hat's stopping your making your own improved Zune port with whatever functionality of compatibility you think it lacks? I'm going to go with "because I can't code for sh*t because the truth is I'm just a moronically repetitive troll that fulfils the role of a court jester. Except I'm no good at that either because I've had no new material in 20 years.". Is that about right?

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DiscreetFX 
Re: Looking for partner(s) to open a physical Amiga 68k shop somewhere in Europe
Posted on 6-Feb-2023 16:37:18
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2468
From: Chicago, IL

@Karlos

He’s way too busy coding to give an answer.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle