@Hypex

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I must give credit to Linux PPC as I've taken 32-bit apps and they ran fine on a 64 bit kernel. Somehow they got something right with 32 bit user land in 64 bit kernel space. I even tested the custom installed Ubuntu 9.04 from my AmigaOne on my X1000 and it was able to boot, at least on older kernels. I installed AROS hosted on it and tested it on my X1000. It runs great!

Very true! I still have to use multiple 32bit apps in Linux these days and they run without any issue or slowdown. Magic sauce. 😂
Even Ubuntu."sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386" and you're good to go.

Last edited by SHADES on 09-Mar-2023 at 07:37 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 09-Mar-2023 at 07:31 PM.

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@umisef

Well, then there should be very visible difference between UAE and other 68k emulators that don’t do chipset emulation. Can’t really say I’ve noticed.

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@kolla

I guess that depends on what you've been doing with it. Anything that is compute bound or latency sensitive (or both, e.g. music production) tended to work better for me in Amithlon than it did on UAE on the same hardware.

I wrote a lot of questionable code back in the day. Some of that much faster on Amithlon.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@SHADES

Quote:

Very true! I still have to use multiple 32bit apps in Linux these days and they run without any issue or slowdown. Magic sauce. 😂 Even Ubuntu."sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386" and you're good to go.

Thanks. That must have been what sauce I was missing on x64 as on PPC64 it seemed to be automatic. I was compiling some DLink router sources designed for a ten year old 32-bit server and ran into trouble with a 32-bit tool included breaking in 64 bit. There were a number of solutions posited online. I just deleted the x86 binaries to force a recompile.

@umisef

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Never mind one that only has a single 32 bit address space.

There's a very easy and simple way to work around AOS design limitations like this. Instead of running a single AmigaOS "instance" you run multiple ones at the same time and composite the screens/windows together into one place. You could easily have 100s or even 1000s of AOSes running at the same time on the same machine. At minimum each big application (paint program, workbench, web browser) would run in it's own instance.

This brings automatic other big advantages: memory protection between instances (think about running two copies of UAE on LInux. In one you run "PersonalPaint". In the other you run "Lighwave"), resource tracking (think quitting UAE on Linux"), multiple core support (Linux might execute some code of the UAE #1 process on core #1 while at the same time executing some of the UAE #2 process code on cpu core #2), etc.

An idle AmigaOS does not really take up any cpu resources/time. (See AROS/hosted running on LInux). Some Timer events going through input.device. Not much else.

You could mix 68k (UAE) and x86 (AROS) apps. 32 bit apps and 64 bit apps (x86).

Here's an older video of how this looks with some semi-rootless hacked AROS/hosted where each AROS program/game/demo (like Doom3, XaoS, Soliton) running in blue Amiga-themed "window" is a separate AROS instance/process. Running on linux desktop. AROS and Linux (shell) windows, intermixed. But only "semi rootless" (parts of each AROS screen which is not a AROS window is dynamically made transparent).

https://vimeo.com/191163338

@Georg

Dear Lord! How many instances of AROS can you even run!?
YES!

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Yes, containing and sandboxing is all the rage. Well, the typical productivity workflow often includes arexx scripts that pass data around the programs for various processing, so for that one must either run the whole workflow in one instance, or use common file system (host filesystem, typically) and network, or just socket files on a shared filesystem.

I frequently assign CLIPS: to filesystem, just for copy’n paste to work across reboots and also to share between FS-UAE instances.

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@Karlos

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I don't have time for a full reply but I think you missed my point here:

Somehow I intended to keep it short but it bloated. A bit like a grocery trip where I only plan to buy a few things and end up spending a fortune.

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I'm not at all suggesting OS4 PPC for UAE. I'm suggesting UAE 68K is a viable market for the proposed OS4 68K version. Along with PiStorm, Vampire and just regular 68020+ machines, though it goes without saying 040/RTG is likely the minimum viable spec. The performance of the QEMU/softfloat implementation in UAE is pretty lacklustre, at least on my machines.

Well the same would apply with 68K, it's just less limiting than PPC, with UAE. But like most emulators it lacks transparency. Since common devices like USB don't show up. It's fine as a sandbox but a bit limiting for a full on environment as it is.

@Georg

Quote:

There's a very easy and simple way to work around AOS design limitations like this. Instead of running a single AmigaOS "instance" you run multiple ones at the same time and composite the screens/windows together into one place. You could easily have 100s or even 1000s of AOSes running at the same time on the same machine. At minimum each big application (paint program, workbench, web browser) would run in it's own instance.

According to an OS4 kernel developer Exec runs in an interrupt. Which is easy to see since it switches tasks inside an interrupt. But there's just a slight elephant in the room. Messages. How would IPC work if some tasks cannot know about each other?

@LaBodilsen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a73NFytM2Bs

I found this video running UAE on Amithlon... It looks pretty fast...Quote:

LaBodilsen wrote: @DiscreetFX Quote: Vampire makes it redundant anyway. Why have a super fast emulated ECS Amiga with almost no compatibility with classic Amiga games when you have a AAA chipset equivalent 68080 based machine that runs most 68k software and has new exciting releases. Back in 2002 when i was beta testing Amithlon, I had UAE running OCS games at fullspeed on an Athlon Thunderbird 900mhz. A can't imagine anything have changed in that regard, so you could have a fast Amithlon setup, and run the old games in UAE. Vampire is a nice product line, but i fully believe that the future for classic Amiga hardware is in PiStorm and Emu68. You buy one adaptor, and can then upgrade your Amiga very cheap when a new Rasberry pi comes out with a better CPU. In the not so distant future i suspect i Pi Zero (next gen) to be faster than any Vampire setup. Maybe PiStorm can even be made compatible with other SBC's, to give even more performance. As for myself. If the computer is not a laptop, i'm not interested , I don't use Desktop PC's anymore (except for work), and i don't see any Amiga setup that could replace my laptop as a daily driver. For me Amiga is pure nostalgia, and a fun trip down memory lane.

@SHADES

Quote:

"sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386"

‘sudo apt install qemu-user-static’ too and you can add any architecture you like and the binaries will run seamlessly as if they were native.

I do this on Aarch64 Linux to run i386 and amd64 binaries.

A1 owners using linux on PPC could do the same thing too.