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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 21:14:13
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@OlafS25

Not bundling software gives you an expensive paperweight!

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 21:23:45
#62 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 809
From: The Interrogative Lair

@OlafS25

Its not a question of world ending magnitude. It is more a question of losing interest. Whatever flavor of Amiga we all like or would like to have, we have all waited a long time for unfulfilled promises, vaporware, products that arrived on the scene too little too late. Being an Amigan these days means being hopefully patient. Sometimes, that patience wears thin.

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 21:45:16
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@BigD

Bundling licensed software with it makes it even more expensive


It's not as if Tower57 and Wings Remastered would be AmigaOne exclusives but they represent an evolution of past Amiga greats!

It's a pretty low bar to expect to be able to mess with Blender, Hollywood, Tower57 and Wings Remastered in exchange for £1000+ in 2023! I.e. I would expect these to be bundled out of the box for a slight surcharge and Trevor's had enough time to work on these sort of deals.

...that IS my minimum expectation considering the dashed hope following hyped reveals and discussions of the last 10 years! I guess that's considered unreasonable?

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 09:51 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 09:50 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 09:49 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 09:47 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 22:25:36
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@BigD

I think it’s pretty clear, that this hardware is not for everyone, it might be that some issues will be improved, so if it complicated, and what happens when next hardware is announced, will developer continue to make improvements to what can be consider a special case.

As for demanding X,Y,Z in this tiny market makes no sense, most of developers are not working full time, some will be paid, some are working on things because they want it to succeed and don’t care about money. And some do it for fun, its not their main income, so everything takes a long time to complete.

In case it will be up to users of this system to make things work well, and I think will sometimes require someone to recompile things, just because the emulation techniques might fail, produce not optimize code as compiler does. It’s like vampire it went to many versions before started to be good, it can take time.

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 22:40:28
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
It’s like vampire it went to many versions before started to be good, it can take time.


No, it's not like the Vampire/Apollo machines as it's roughly twice as much and pretends to operate in the same decade as the mainstream (a bit like the Nintendo Switch does). This is disingenuous IMHO as the reality is that the Vampire and PiStorm 68k systems are closing the gap with the dwindling AmigaOS 4.x hardware while being an order of magnitude cheaper (in the case of the PiStorm). You can easily roll with the punches considering the hobbiest nature of the PiStorm project, however when you pay north of £1000 for so called NG stuff you start expecting more!

I am not demanding "x, y and z", as you put it but instead I expect that a highly anticipated and perfect demonstration of how optimised and capable the gimped FPU on the A1222 Plus can be if given the correct care and attention, is actually finished before I would consider parting with my money!

If money/resources is the issue then A-EON/AmigaKit have the developer contacts/finances to push this over the line in return for exclusive bundling rights! Surely that's a deal that can be done? Team17 run that model today basically finishing and punlishing digital indie games that other people have made! That's a business model in the real world!

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 10:47 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 23:03:12
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@BigD

We don’t have large user base like «Nintendo Switch».

We have ATARI Jaguar emulator, PS1 emulator and DOS emulator etc, there are lots of games, that can be played on AmigaONE system, but perhaps not easy to setup, as on real machines.

probably better to have a real computers, even ifs more boxes, and cables and crap, perhaps, if don’t have space for it, emulation can be better.

Natives games like ones ported by HunoPPC (and games on OS4Depot.net ported by different developers) is naturally best, but we only get what’s open source, we just can’t pay large license fees.

It's also good have native games from Hyperion Entertainment as well.

And we have EUAE that does good job, relatively speaking, perhaps other solutions are better for 680x0 software, and games, but it does what it does.

Basilisk II work ok as well.

So lots of software libraries you can tap into, if you’re interested.

AmigaONE hardware wins on 3D and video playback, and this what its better at, and perhaps the extra MHZ also make web browsing and other tools like Blender usable. Its not directly competing with Vampire, its not trying to best 680x0 computer, but does not prevent anyone from working with 68K software, if you need to.

Software developers will appreciate the SDK and development tools, that’s easy install and setup, and I think that’s perhaps another advantage to this system.

Even if not directly competing with “Vampire” is competing in same market, lots of people have classic machine and a AmigaONE or something else. the size of wallet is not unlimited, for most people. Some people more interested in X and some people are more interested in Y.

TRIPOS concerns about market is valid, but its true for all the Amiga markets. Nothing to be ashamed of, it is what it is. It makes making money hard because you need to support maybe at least 2 markets to get any money, or more. this makes Hollywood a blessing for anyone who are trying to make a few bucks.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2023 at 11:20 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2023 at 11:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2023 at 11:10 PM.

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 23:39:04
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Software developers will appreciate the SDK and development tools, that’s easy install and setup, and I think that’s perhaps another advantage to this system.


You make it sound like a NeXt Box that the next Doom killer app type game will be written on! I thought the Tabor was issuing in a new wave of 'users'? We now seem to have to be users who like recompiling current OpenSource software for use with the SPE!

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 8-Jul-2023 23:43:01
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@Thread

Don't get me wrong I'd love to win one in a raffle and think it has merit, but I just think a sub £700 price point for a complete system is impossible now! Shame, because combined with the strength of the community as recently as 2016 this could have created waves!

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2023 at 11:44 PM.

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Tpod 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 1:06:57
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Oct-2009
Posts: 150
From: UK

Well its good its about to appear with all its hardware fully supported.

The biggest issue with the A1222 is that it highlights a more general fact about OS4.1 & its expensive hardware. It appears to have drifted into being fully retro; originally IMHO the main aim/attraction over Classic Amigas was it having capabilities somewhere close to current gen computing. I don't think you can really say that today … you certainly cant with the A1222. Despite this, it still looks like it will mostly be a pleasure to use.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 2:11:02
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@PhantomInterrogative

Quote:

PhantomInterrogative wrote:
@thread

As my signature implies, I've been waiting for a long time to get Amiga hardware. I have made good use of WinUAE for the Amiga Art Contest for the past three years. Yet, even with all of the speed I can squeeze out of it, WinUAE is not an adequate substitute. I was hoping for a low cost, entry level NG Amiga. While the A1222 may fit the "entry level" bill, it no longer is low cost. In addition, being an art, animation, and image processing guy, I am disturbed by the problems with things like 3D software, anything using ffmpeg, etc. Even if they did work fine (Eliyahu now says Cinema4D works ok), they are still hindered by FPU emulation. The compatibility issues would have to be solved before I would even consider this system.

The main reason I sold my SAM460 back in 2015 was the inability to play back DVDs, or watch Youtube videos over the net. I could play them, but the video and audio did not match, and the framerate was low. With the ability to use graphics card GPUs, that is now a non-issue.

I really am torn what to do at this point. What currently captures my interest is the Amiga Custom Chip replacement project and Buffee that Nonarkitten and Kipper2k are developing. However, that may be a few more years in the waiting. Will I really be interested in going back to a 68k based machine in a few years? Will the Buffee catch up in speed with PPC performance? ARM performance (will 3.2 be ported to ARM on Buffee)?


PiStorm32 with Emu68 + RPi 4B (quad-core ARM Cortex A72) has road-killed Buffee.

There was a proxy debate between Michal Schulz's Emu68 vs Renee Cousins' PJIT 2.0. The bitterness was started by Renee's PJIT essay throwing mud at Emu68 which caused Michal and Claude to respond. Renee's vampire-killer bitterness also affected Emu68.

Last edited by Hammer on 09-Jul-2023 at 02:13 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Amiga4000 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 2:17:25
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 375
From: The Ford Galaxy

@Hammer

What do you mean by "also affected Emu68".... I'm not well versed on subjects PiStorm32 or Buffee.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 3:15:28
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@Amiga4000

Quote:

Amiga4000 wrote:
@Hammer

What do you mean by "also affected Emu68".... I'm not well versed on subjects PiStorm32 or Buffee.


The trigger https://www.buffee.ca/Why-PJIT-Why/

The comments against Renee Cousins' PJIT essay are on PiStorm's Discord server and the search keyword is "buffee". Jim Drew joins in the fun...


_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Amiga4000 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 3:51:13
#73 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 375
From: The Ford Galaxy

@Hammer

Soooooooooory, another question if I may...

What operating system(s) does the PiStorm32 with Emu68 + RPi 4B run?
What operating system(s) does the Buffee run?

Last edited by Amiga4000 on 09-Jul-2023 at 03:51 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 7:12:01
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

pistorm is emulator.
there is no reasons to use this shit.
Just use pc with winuae.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 7:24:25
#75 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@Tpod

Amiga games on decent tv/monitors don't look like on 1084s in 1992.
decent tv/monitors are two or three times bigger than good old 1084s.
so resolutions in games have to be changed from 320x256 to at least 640x480
to look on decent tv/monitors as on 1084s in 1992.
Amiga community need something better than graphics from C= to keep up
with changed sizes of decent tv/monitors.
a1222 may be nice better retro.

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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 8:17:32
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
We have ATARI Jaguar emulator, PS1 emulator and DOS emulator etc, there are lots of games, that can be played on AmigaONE system, but perhaps not easy to setup, as on real machines.


Much as I loved the Jaguar and it miniscule library back in the day. At least IronSoldier and AlienVsPredator were ok-ish. Not good but acceptable and had a few fun moments.


Are you saying that people should buy a Tabor because it can emulate 30 years old consoles, poorly?
Shit's fucked, man. You got to step up your marketing and sales game if you want people to get excited. 30 years old failed console is not it. LOL


A 25$ Raspberry Pi can emulate both PS1 and Jaguar, and a lot of other retro consoles a lot better and faster than the Tabor. Because more power, less cost, and actual developer community to port and maintain shit in RPi actually exists.

You really need a better sales pitch. Is this how low your expectations are? It can emulate Jaguar? And this is a valid reason to shell out >1300E to buy one? Jesus christ.

Last edited by V8 on 09-Jul-2023 at 08:19 AM.

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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 8:24:32
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Amiga community need something better than graphics from C= to keep up with changed sizes of decent tv/monitors.


Yes
And this technology already exists.

REAL Amiga output looks pretty fantastic if you have a decent RGB to HDMI upscaler. There are many available upscalers that can do this and by Amiga pricing standards they are all dirt cheap, as in low three digits USD$. Basically pocket change.

Or you can even build one yourself if you are somewhat handy with a soldering iron for about 40-50$. Just google GBS Control. Voultar has a good video on the mod and CFW for the upscaler and then you just add the SCART mod for it.

Last edited by V8 on 09-Jul-2023 at 08:36 AM.
Last edited by V8 on 09-Jul-2023 at 08:35 AM.
Last edited by V8 on 09-Jul-2023 at 08:29 AM.

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 9:50:43
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@Thread

I just thought, this news is akin to RPi stating the stock shortage is over and they're batch manufacturing RPi boards again! There's been no such announcement because the news is they'll be available again in September/supply constraints will ease completely in the third quarter!

So basically the announcements are stock/purchaser focused rather than manufacturer focused! So, when will the A1222+ actually be available to buy? At what price? And, what's the full configuration be and can we have a marketing photo with the case etc? Do we all have to pre-order?

Obviously, I gave up on this being treated as an actual mainstream product ages ago but since we live in the real world it would be nice to have real world announcements about this computer considering the time they've had to prepare for the launch! Teaser website like the X1000 for instance!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 11:06:05
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@V8

Quote:
You really need a better sales pitch. Is this how low your expectations are? It can emulate Jaguar? And this is a valid reason to shell out >1300E to buy one? Jesus christ.


its not my job to sell it..

But this website perhaps can help people to get some overview of what this computer can do.

What type of software, tools, players, and office packages.

https://www.amigaos.net/

You don’t need to be a developer to love this system, we have TJ, who is posting videos on YouTube, looks like he has a great time with AmigaONE-X5000.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=TJ+X5000

Kas1e has lots videos of Sam460/X5000/X1000/Pegasuss II systems.

https://www.youtube.com/@OMEGA12001/videos

But it helps if you are developer because then you can do something about things, you don’t like, or miss. And you don’t need to be waiting for something to happen.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 11:20 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 11:19 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 11:17 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 11:12 AM.

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-Sam- 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 11:18:37
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3037
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@NutsAboutAmiga

Thanks for introducing me to the TJ channel!

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