@matthey

Quote:

If there was a large enough 68k Amiga market, licenses could be obtained and enhanced and ported games using IP protected files could be provided in a tested ready to download and install form. Some Amiga users may not have the original games, the AGA versions or CD32 versions of some software which could be provided legally when possible

One thing that bothers me nowadays is the fact that it's very hard for you to sell your digital acquired games, it's like you own nothing, you just rent it. Wouldn't a technology like NFT helps in that regard? One would have a proof of ownership and if he wanted he could sell it without fear of keeping using the game.

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@pixie

Right now, your software licenses, I think main issue centralized things. You make tempting to hack.
in open system like Amiga, there is no way telling if someone is monitoring what you do or not, even on Windows and Linux, you don’t really trust the OS, nor can you trust of 1000 of web pages you log into every day.

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@kolla

Quote:

The only reason AmiStore/AmiSphere kinda works, is because volume is very low (and the units are limited in all kinds of ways) - once you talk of thousands of online units that connect from all over the world, you must look at how you scale the service. And that comes with a cost.

AmiStore has reverse engineered Java version, it was created because someone who can’t get AmiStore to work on his AmigaONE machine, the security apparently NULL when someone can do that.

Actually think Hyperion online web store is 100 x better… it has fancy images or anything.
Perhaps Hyperion should think about becoming web store for independent developers.
(they also system in place to transfer ownership of licenses.)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2023 at 03:02 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2023 at 03:01 PM.

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@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @kolla Quote: kolla wrote: @matthey But also - as someone who’d definitely bring the THEA500 mini online - why would I use a store? You’re doing the solipsism thing again. OK, so you’re not the target demographic for the store. The demographic you’re in would represent a minority.

But who is?

Let me remind you, in order to get the THA500 mini (or the THEC64 mini for that matter) online, it must be modified, it requires kernel modules for the wifi stack as well as device driver for whichever wifi usb stick the user has, and the supplicant software.

Quote:

A legitimate store would compel a non-insignificant percentage of those who have stored away their A500 Mini, to bring it back out and play some more.

What does “legitimate store” imply? RetroComputer are too smart to do this, they know very well that once their devices are online, they will also be target for malware and all other security concerns that come with it, and adding a store on top of it all is mighty expensive and tons of work. So they won’t do this.

Quote:

Many of those would happily pay for a simple and convenient way to get a new game pack, or maybe purchase games à la carte at perhaps $5 per title. Saves them time messing around, and they get to hopefully support more ongoing releases.

Messing around is a requirement to get the bloody thing online in the first place. Once it is online, just installing games from whdownload with is super easy - you should know, you’re an amiga user - or are you?

Last edited by kolla on 16-Sep-2023 at 10:29 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Hyperion has an online store? What are they selling? Surely not AmigaOS?

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@kolla

* AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition for Classic
* Shogo: Mobile Armor Division
* Gorky 17 (AmigaOS 4)
* Descent: Freespace (AmigaOS)

(They used to sell other versions of AmigaOS looks like its removed.)

https://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php/where-to-buy/direct-downloads

Acube Systems is selling ACube version of AmigaOS4.1, Pegasus II version you need buy from dealers, works shockingly well with QEMU.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2023 at 10:20 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2023 at 10:18 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

They still actually _sell_ all that old stuff?

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@kolla

Not everything is as old as you might think.

Shogo has AmigaOS4 update.
Freespace aslo got OS4 fix.
Gorky 17 is only for OS4.

lots of old stuff to buy on gog.com

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 12:15 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 12:15 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

These three games you keep repeating are from the late 90s.
How is this "not as old as you think" ?

@V8

Because they are updated to work with Warp3D nova.
it’s not old binary from the 90's

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 11:57 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I wasn’t asking about when last update was, more like if they’re still selling stuff. I’d imagine the market is saturated at this point.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Wow! Whole new experiences then?!!

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@BigD

I apricate all improvements in old games that includes also Alien Breed 3D and other games as well.

What is really sad, is lazy people who only complain, but does do anything.

Another thing that’s is sad, is lack of games to buy at different Amiga dealer,
there more games listed thats not available, then the games available.
So I think it great there is digital downloads.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 10:38 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 08:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2023 at 08:39 PM.

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kolla Quote:

I wasn’t asking about when last update was, more like if they’re still selling stuff. I’d imagine the market is saturated at this point.

Is it even worth considering market saturation with the AmigaOS 4 market being so tiny? Is the top selling AmigaOS 4 game 3,000 copies or even 2,000 copies considering that AmigaOS 4 is not gaming oriented and often used on emulation?

Dungeon Master for the Atari ST was estimated to have reached more than half of the installed base but that was a gaming oriented system. The Amiga version did very well but may not have had the same market penetration due to requiring a 512kiB memory expansion but it was perhaps most responsible for pushing the 1MiB memory standard on the Amiga.



How is it possible to make money with a user base as small as AmigaOS 4 unless you don't pay your developers? Guess who is known for not paying developers and predatory contract shenanigans? Perhaps Hyperion behavior further reduces their store sales considering they also stole from their business partners including Trevor so who would give them their credit card number in the store? Why does Trevor associate with criminals that soil the Amiga reputation and sales instead of turning them in?

Last edited by matthey on 17-Sep-2023 at 11:46 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 17-Sep-2023 at 11:43 PM.

@matthey

Its absolutely game oriented, a lot’s of work gone into the 3D API.
you also run System friendly RTS games, DOSBox games, Mac Games, and EUAE games.
(and WarpOS games, its kind sad these games are not available in stores anymore.)
lots of Open Source SDL games, is ported over.

If you’re into gaming, you find something to play for sure on AmigaONE.
But yeh, not as modern as your gaming PC, or obsolete as your Amiga.

Amiga & AmigaOS is where it is today, due to failure of Gateway / ESCOM / VisCorp / Commodore /, too much time had passed. Seams they only milked dyeing cow. Instead of giving it green gras.

too many falls starts, failed projects. Too many money grabbers.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 12:21 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 12:19 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 12:18 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 12:12 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 12:12 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Its absolutely game oriented, a lot’s of work gone into the 3D API. you also run System friendly RTS games, DOSBox games, Mac Games, and EUAE games. (and WarpOS games, its kind sad these games are not available in stores anymore.) lots of Open Source SDL games, is ported over.

Lemon Amiga

Hardware is: PPC
Found 14 games. (only Shogo and Wipeout 2097 are PPC only)

Hardware is: CD32
Found 161 games.

Listing All games
Found 4765 games. (-2 PPC only = 4763 68k Amiga games)

The very gaming oriented CD32 console was only out for about 6 months before C= was bankrupt yet has 161 native games. The gaming oriented 68k Amiga was out for about 10 years and has 4763 games according to Lemon Amiga. AmigaNOne hardware came out in 2002 which is over 20 years ago. How many native games does it have? Can it even match in 20 years the number of games the CD32 had in 6 months?

The Raspberry Pi is non gaming oriented even though the Raspberry Pi 4 CPU outperforms AmigaNOne hardware. It relies heavily on emulation for games but doesn't have many native games. There are 97 games listed as native support, 19 have specific ARM32 or ARM64 support so may not run on all hardware and 59 are hackable support meaning they are ports that require data files from original, usually x86, games.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Linux_ARM_games

Does the gaming oriented AmigaNOne with fancy 3D support and nearly twice as much time on the market compared to the Raspberry Pi have more games?

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

If you’re into gaming, you find something to play for sure on AmigaONE. But yeh, not as modern as your gaming PC, or obsolete as your Amiga.

At least my Amiga has a FPU which arrived in the desktop 80486 in 1989 and in the 68040 in 1990. Maybe this topic should be discussed in the A1222 thread but I've already had my posts disappear there. PPC AmigaNOne is more obsolete now than a 68060 Amiga was in 2002 when the first PPC AmigaNOne came out. More than a few games will have better performance on a $35 Raspberry Pi than a $1,000+ AmigaNOne. PPC AmigaNOne fanatics calling the 68k Amiga obsolete is like the pot calling the kettle black.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Amiga & AmigaOS is where it is today, due to failure of Gateway / ESCOM / VisCorp / Commodore /, too much time had passed. Seams they only milked dyeing cow. Instead of giving it green gras. too many falls starts, failed projects. Too many money grabbers.

You better include A-Eon and Hyperion in that list. They just don't know when to quit. It's not like their prospects are improving but more like they are trying to refloat a sinking and fully submerged ship.

Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2023 at 10:05 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2023 at 10:01 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2023 at 01:56 AM.

@matthey

Quote:

Lemon Amiga

OK let's talk about lemon Amega, I have noticed there are several games that's missing on this web page and I will also noticed that there are many web pages that has been poorly and maintained in particular after 2003 or around that time, other games which are only power PC which is not listed is “feeble files”, and “nightlong".

Of course those are the really old PowerUP and WarpOS games.

Not the newest games ported to AmigaOS4.
Amiga in 2008 wasn't like Amiga inn 1995, and Amiga in 2003 was not good as in 2000, dwindling user numbers.

I think there has been many fall out periods, post Commodore.

I remember a huge disappointment about amiga Inc not going straight for power PC, instead went for OS3.5 and OS3.9.

then there was a huge disappointment about Amitalon a few years later when that didn't workout.

There was a huge disappointment about inside out project from BlitterSoft, and the failed boxer project as well. There was also a huge disappointment about amiga digital environment, nobody in their right minds believed that it was possible to challenge JavaVM, and you have to say they were right.

Old classic hardware was hugely expensive and prohibitively so, there was a high demand with while there were no production of new computers in the post VIsCorp / ESCOM, There were no new customers in this period of time. Computers only changed hands between collectors. And this is how it has been for very very long time.

The fact that we are spoiled now for options both for power PC and for Raspberry Pi ARM solutions plus FPGA Amiga clones, should be considered amazing. If nothing else.

Amiga has never recovered after Commodore bankruptcy really, the big software houses, Independent game developers, most of the demo scene, an individual software developers are gone, and they aren’t coming back.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 08:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 04:27 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2023 at 04:24 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

We have Pixel Glass and Beam Cannon and a few others! That is a miracle!

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@matthey

This can be good news for AmigaOS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4EzC__dCLw

Goddot can be portable to AmigaOS.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

OK let's talk about lemon Amega, I have noticed there are several games that's missing on this web page and I will also noticed that there are many web pages that has been poorly and maintained in particular after 2003 or around that time, other games which are only power PC which is not listed is “feeble files”, and “nightlong".

Feeble Files works on a 68060 and Nightlong works on a 68030.

https://amiga.abime.net/games/view/the-feeble-files
https://amiga.abime.net/games/view/nightlong-union-city-conspiracy

Wipeout 2097 and Tower 57 look like quality PPC games which do not have 68k versions. Hyperion has some PPC only games for sale but giving credit card numbers to criminals is ignorant.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

The fact that we are spoiled now for options both for power PC and for Raspberry Pi ARM solutions plus FPGA Amiga clones, should be considered amazing. If nothing else.

Spoiled by poor options?

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Amiga has never recovered after Commodore bankruptcy really, the big software houses, Independent game developers, most of the demo scene, an individual software developers are gone, and they aren’t coming back.

Software developers migrate to the land of abundant hardware. THEA500 Mini shows it is possible to sell 68k Amiga hardware even though the "68k Amiga hardware" is an illusion using emulation instead of a targetable platform for development.