updated

A600 based Keychron V1 Max: full size

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@pixie

This is clearly REALLY difficult to get right 😂😂😂

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@kolla

Didn't understood

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@pixie

Guess you don’t use “real� Amiga much either? It’s quite obvious.

Here’s a hint - what’s the main layout difference between a modern PC keyboard and a modern mac keyboard?

Last edited by kolla on 12-Oct-2024 at 11:37 AM.

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@kolla



Why do answer with a question? I've seen you telling that you'd rather prefer control on the place of caps lock.. so explain how an Amiga keyboard like mine, equal to that of Amiga minus caps lock tiny button is alien to amiga

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@pixie

I don't own have an Amiga no more so I had based on what I see on internet
https://images.app.goo.gl/YyLkyS9Qe6cZJAgz8

I have no pinky problem like you seem to havez neither on Amiga nor in pc. On WinUAE my Amiga key is mapped to the control and I couldn't be happier, I don't really get the attitude. But more power to those behaving like smart asses... I obviously doesn't use Amiga, only Amiga software

Last edited by pixie on 12-Oct-2024 at 03:55 PM.
Last edited by pixie on 12-Oct-2024 at 03:50 PM.

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pixie Quote:

Didn't understood

I believe kolla is complaining about the alt keys being moved inside of the Amiga keys next to the space bar. I agree that it would be better not to do this. Multiple qualifier keys may need to be pressed together (e.g. Ctrl+Alt+Del).



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-Alt-Delete

Qualifier keys that are grouped together are easier to press together. This could be bad for PC keyboards which use Ctrl+Alt+Del to reboot. Amiga keyboards allow relatively easy access of multiple qualifier key combos including Alt with either hand except for Ctrl which is only on the left. Qualifier keys should be pressed with the opposite hand as the primary key press which is the key combo shown in the keyboard pic above. The Amiga Ctrl key is a qualifier key but only available on the left making it difficult to use for primary keys on the right. Adding left+right bottom Ctrl keys fixes the issue and improves the symmetry. PC keyboard designs may not move the Alt keys to the outside even though qualifier combos are easier to press because of the reboot combo and a more modern Amiga keyboard may not want to remove the middle left Ctrl key because of the reboot combo too. It may seem odd to suggest 3 Amiga Ctrl keys but it may be the preferable default mapping over adding a function, menu and/or caps lock non-qualifier keys to the qualifier key locations.

| Ctrl | Alt | Amiga | space bar | Amiga | Alt | Ctrl |

@matthey

My right hand tends to rest on the mouse, not on the keyboard.

Maybe it’s an Amiga thing…

Btw, yes, swapped alt/gui keys - apple got it right, they should be close to spacebar and accessible by thumbs.

Last edited by kolla on 12-Oct-2024 at 06:04 PM.

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@matthey

The Amiga Keyboard I based it from had them on each spacebar side. He's right when he says I I do not use an Amiga, I use AmigaOS, and I map the keys where I want them too, for example I change Right Amiga Key to Ctrl, so I can use windows and amiga os interchangeably mostly in my left hand, and Left Amiga Key to the other side... but I based my keypad on existing Amiga keyboards... but I got unlucky in thinking they would all be the same and pick the very own that was different. No need for a snide remark... because it seems it's not all that easy as it should be.

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@kolla

Quote:

Btw, yes, swapped alt/gui keys - apple got it right, they should be close to spacebar and accessible by thumbs.

Got what right?

Command is next to spacebar
Amiga key is next to space bar
option is right next to command
Alt is next to Amiga Key
Ctrl is positioned the same as PC (not like on Amiga which seems that you favored) but doesn't behave the same, command does...

What exactly apple got right?


BTW I rest my left hand on keyboard also, thank God I can rely on my pinkie! :P

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@pixie

Quote:

What exactly apple got right?

You just summed it up.

Apple didn’t swap alt and command keys to satisfy PC keyboard users.

Btw, Amiga layout has one charcter key more in main than PC keyboards, how do you solve that?

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@kolla

Which key would that be? You have windows keys Amiga keys, you have right and left control alt and alt graph on pc... I don't know what keys Amiga has which PC cannot map onto it

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@pixie

In your very nice rendering, the Alt keys are hugging the space bar, which is ideally where the Amiga keys should be.

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@agami

I think RGL will mimic the A600 layout assuming it's an A600 form factor. I don't see why they would mess with it!

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@agami
Quote:

In your very nice rendering, the Alt keys are hugging the space bar, which is ideally where the Amiga keys should be.

Well, thank you! In my infinite wisdom I went on picking the only different keyboard as base! xD



https://drive.google.com/file/d/11VEVT4A6L7T8zW7bbIZQXByU1TONMc0t/view?usp=sharing

https://amitopia.com/great-mechanical-keyboard-ka59-news-for-amiga-1200/

Last edited by pixie on 15-Oct-2024 at 07:52 AM.

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A new, easily available Amiga accurate USB keyboard is one thing I really would like to have.

I mean this wasnt a bad effort https://lyonsden.net/amiga-classic-usb-mechanical-keyboard/
But I felt it was a bit overprice for basically a resink PC keyboard.

I kinda did mine own, years ago...
https://amigang.com/images/amigakeyboard1.jpg
https://x.com/amigang/status/179156954814083910

I actually like the Brown and white look, slightly over the Amiga true Grey / white look.

TheDaddy an old member on here, sold Amiga keycaps, that would fit cherry keyboard
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/505470364/amiga-inspired-key-caps-for-mechanical-keyboards/description

So I feel we need a accurate Amiga keyboard that would fit old Amiga as well, I know A1200.net worked on and I think even released a very limited number but I really hoped Retro Game ltd was working on a full A500 sized keyboard. or Checkmate, or anyone really.

I said to AmigaKit, if they did a squeal to the A600GS and say make A1200GS or A2400 then they do well to put it in a full size Amiga keyboard or Amiga Fantasy stly case, yes it would up the cost, but i think Amiga users would get it. (well I would anyway :) )

Last edited by amigang on 15-Oct-2024 at 10:44 AM.

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@amigang

Quote:

I said to AmigaKit, if they did a squeal to the A600GS and say make A1200GS or A2400 then they do well to put it in a full size Amiga keyboard or Amiga Fantasy stly case, yes it would up the cost, but i think Amiga users would get it. (well I would anyway :) )

It would be interesting if it had:

- Wifi (AmigaLive)
- Bluetooth (sound and game controllers)
- CRT/LCD

So we could merge old with new seamlessly.

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amigang Quote:

A new, easily available Amiga accurate USB keyboard is one thing I really would like to have. I mean this wasnt a bad effort https://lyonsden.net/amiga-classic-usb-mechanical-keyboard/ But I felt it was a bit overprice for basically a resink PC keyboard.

It's a quality keyboard, looks nice, has a reduced size, has cool custom Amiga printed keys and has home key raised markers but it uses too much of a PC keyboard layout. It looks like it would be possible to switch keys and the keymap could be customized so it has possibilities if it were not so expensive.

It would be nice if there was a programmable USB keyboard for the default layout using non-volatile/flash memory. Send the keyboard the default keymap from a computer through the USB and then the keyboard could be unplugged and used anywhere with that keymap. It should be possible if it doesn't already exist. The Amiga plug-in keyboards used a 6570 (6502 variant) CPU/MCU chip and had a keyboard cost of ~$23 compared to an A1200 keyboard of ~$9 in ~1993. I don't know the cost of the 6570 but it should have been significantly less than the $2.44 CBM paid for the 68000 in 1991. Much better MCUs are available today including with non-volatile/flash memory and lots of SRAM for about the same cost like the ~$1 RP2350. Adjusted for inflation, it is no doubt cheaper than the 6570 and better integration lowers the system cost. The funny thing is that the ~$1 RP2350 MCU uses more transistors than a 68060+AGA. The Amiga practically used a C64 CPU for the keyboard MCU and a modern computer could practically use a 68060+AGA SoC MCU for the keyboard (the RP2350 SoC MCU includes enough SRAM and NOR for a 68k Amiga and to store default keyboard settings uploaded to the keyboard through USB). Such an Amiga keyboard could add extra USB ports acting as a USB hub as well as game ports for the 68k Amiga and a HDMI connector could be added to play 68k Amiga retro games with the Amiga USB keyboard. How many more Amigas would CBM have sold if C64 owners could have played C64 games with their Amiga keyboards? Does this adequately demonstrate how much further the Amiga is behind the tech curve today than the C64 was when the Amiga came out and that the solution is more modern silicon and not emulation?

amigang Quote:

I kinda did mine own, years ago... https://amigang.com/images/amigakeyboard1.jpg https://x.com/amigang/status/179156954814083910 I actually like the Brown and white look, slightly over the Amiga true Grey / white look.

I prefer the grey/white but the brown looks ok. I'd like to see what replacing the brown with red would look like for an Amiga theme, perhaps with Amiga text like the 1st keyboard you linked but with red boing ball logo too (the RPi 400 uses some red highlights but didn't go overboard). The numeric keypad with the '(' and ')' keys is an improvement but still too much of a PC layout for me.

Last edited by matthey on 15-Oct-2024 at 02:16 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 15-Oct-2024 at 02:12 PM.

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @kolla Which key would that be? You have windows keys Amiga keys, you have right and left control alt and alt graph on pc... I don't know what keys Amiga has which PC cannot map onto it

In a touch of irony, matthey posted an image of what appears to be a PC keyboard with the three-finger-salute.

But is it really an ordinary PC keyboard?
What's going on between 0 and backspace? It looks just like Amiga keyboards on that location, PC keyboards normally has two keys between 0 and backspace, not three like Amiga.

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kolla Quote:

In a touch of irony, matthey posted an image of what appears to be a PC keyboard with the three-finger-salute. But is it really an ordinary PC keyboard? What's going on between 0 and backspace? It looks just like Amiga keyboards on that location, PC keyboards normally has two keys between 0 and backspace, not three like Amiga.

The Amiga keyboard likely generally copied off the 1984 IBM 84 key AT keyboard but added some improvements.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard

The 3 finger salute keyboard layout combines an old and new layout. There were other keyboards which used the 3 keys between 0 and backspace but the popular 101 key and later keyboard layouts makes it less common. The old layout may be more popular for some languages as it appears to be used on some Asian keyboards even for the Mac. I expect language differences are what make keyboard production a pain and increase costs.