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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
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Poll : What do you prefer?
Memory protection
To be able to run old programs
 
PosterThread
elwood 
[Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:37:23
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3428
From: Lyon, France

HI all,

Imagine Amigans can wait for 1 more year, would you like memory protection to be implemented into the OS ?
Having MP will stop all old programs to work immediately.
So we would have to decide to have either a rock solid OS thanks to MP or to still be able to run old programs.

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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
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amipal 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:46:18
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1907
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@elwood

Quote:
Having MP will stop all old programs to work immediately.

Are you sure about this? Surely it depends on where exactly the program decides to roam in memory?

IIRC MP was to be an optional setting anyway.

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Eric_S 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:47:24
#3 ]
Team Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1334
From: Stockholm (Sweden)

@elwood

Memory protection for teh win! Serioulsy though, any old apps that gets busted due to it can be run under EUAE. IMO letting legacy hinder progress is a bad thing aspecially when there is a perfecly viable solution for people that wants to run the apps under OS4 (again, using EUAE).

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afxgroup 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:48:34
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2004
Posts: 1968
From: Taranto, Italy

@Eric_S

agreed with you

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GuruMeditation 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:51:38
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Apr-2004
Posts: 281
From: Gothenburg, Sweden

I vote for memory protection. Let the old apps that are needed be rewritten, either from scratch or if the source is available, get ported over to the new system.

And, I don't think all old apps will stop working once MP is turned on, only the badly written ones that expect things to be certain address spaces. A program shouldn't really care about that anyway, just ask for memory to be given to it..

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Deniil715 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 14:59:45
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4237
From: Sweden

@elwood

If you mean full memory protection then I'm sure many new OS4 nativ programn will fail as well. But let's say "more" MP than now, just enough to stop all 68k program, that's a bad idea indeed!

Let's list a few programs that we would have to live without then..:
IBrowse
AmIRC
RC-FTPd, AmFTP, ATC
AmigaAmp, AMPlifier, ANR
DirOpus
Scout, SysInspector
MakeCD, FryingPan
and A LOT more..... like e.g. all of my programs, (except for Annotate, MPlayer-GUI and AllKeys).

I can't live without mainly IBrowse, AmigaAmp and DOpus. If I had to do that, I could just as well get myself a WinPC instead, 'cause that's how unfun and unusable my A1 would be then...

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Clueless 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:06:16
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2003
Posts: 96
From: Eastmidlands, UK

I agree with Eric_S
There has to be a balance of keping it "Old School" and moving with the times.
And retarding progress to keep one foot in the past is a bad move... speshly when you can emulate them.

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The_Editor 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:11:49
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Deniil715

TheMPegEncGUI would still work then ?

Thats me happy then .. Roll on MP

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elwood 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:14:36
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3428
From: Lyon, France

@GuruMeditation

Quote:
I don't think all old apps

Not all but a lot of them, no? Do programs that use message ports would work?

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Deniil715 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:21:13
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4237
From: Sweden

@The_Editor

No TheMPegEncGUI will not work. It is 68k and will always be (as it's written in E). Also MultiRen, DRemind, 8SVXtoXXX, JoinSplitter, AmigaAmp-Prefs, BackUp, just to mentions a few of mine, wouldn't work then either... ;)

@elwood

By old I though you meant really old, non-systemfriendly programs, not new 68k programs (yes there ARE new 68k programs being both written but most notably updated :))!

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Deniil715 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:24:38
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4237
From: Sweden

@elwood

Not if the data being send over a message port contains a pointer to shared memory. The msg port mecanism itself could be rewritten to copy all data over to the other process. But that data could as I said be a pointer to something which was then intended to be shared between processes and this wouldn't work if the processes didn't use a specific memory flag when allocating. MEMF_PUBLIC was supposed to be used for this but it got abused and can no longer be trusted for its purpose. OS4 has new flags, but old 68k programs of course doesn't know about them...

Last edited by Deniil715 on 07-Nov-2005 at 03:25 PM.

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olegil 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:30:12
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5895
From: Work

@Deniil715

Well, native OS4 programs should be recompilible, I doubt we have a bunch of unmaintained applications written for OS4 (yet)

@thread

if it's a: configurable, _and_ b: just a matter of recompiling with trivial code differences (pop in some macros to handle things for you) then I'm all for it. Else I'm all against it. So I can't vote until I have more info.

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Amigo1 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:35:47
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@elwood

it's funny, now that so much effort was done to make os4 compatible with older 68k(classic) progs, dropping it all of a sudden seems little awesome to me..
by the way little off topic but have to repeat it: IMHO dropping support for CSPPC expansion cards will get "us" a little more time for coding more important things too.. doesn't it? (hope someone si listening)

I voted for MP but I think it should (full)come with 4.1/4.2 so there is at least 1/2 year to port the needed Classic progs to OS4.

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RWO 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:36:08
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 457
From: Denmark


For me full MP and Resource tracking is at the top of my wish list.

So I voted MP.

RWO

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AmigaPapst 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:37:16
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2003
Posts: 635
From: Amigavatikan

@elwood
I voted for MP, but I think MP should be a optional feature, like the debug mode from os4 kernel.

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elwood 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 15:38:10
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3428
From: Lyon, France

@Amigo1

Quote:
dropping it all of a sudden

I just thought there were not enough polls these days

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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 16:41:08
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12835
From: Norway

@elwood

Once again I don't get the question,

AmigaOS4 design allows the developer to ask for private memory or public memory, is that not memory protection?

that do not break or conflict whit old programs at all!

are you asking about protecting apis and removing support for SnoopDOS, or what, I refuse to vote!

(I vote keep it as it is in OS4)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Nov-2005 at 04:42 PM.

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 16:57:36
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11589
From: In the village

@elwood

Quote:"I just thought there were not enough polls these days"

Good one. But let's be serious. Essentially the respondents to your poll so far
have been OS4 betatesters/OS4 developers/ 3rd party betatesters and developers.
This is fine, but...if you are looking for input from the general public I
think they are going to want to know, "How does this affect -me-?" before they
express their opinions here.
Posts #6, #10, and #11 by Daniel speak to that issue.
If you can clearly state the names of some popular 68k applications in a list that
either -will- or -will not- function with memory protection, then I think you
will receive more user/AW member input in your thread.

I do not mean to criticize your poll. I am just uncertain as to your audience
with this poll.

Best Wishes,
#6


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Tomas 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 17:07:13
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@elwood

Neither of the pool options.. I think it is best to have optional memory protection, so that you can turn it off whenever you want backwards compitability.

I think this is what hyperion plans anyways..

Last edited by Tomas on 07-Nov-2005 at 05:08 PM.

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Leo 
Re: [Poll] Memory protection or old programs?
Posted on 7-Nov-2005 17:13:17
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

There has to be a balance of keping it "Old School" and moving with the times.

Don't you think the balance has lasted enough ?

The balance is there since PowerPC boards... that's 8 years.

It's high time to move on and forget about the old old old old old OS.

Leo.

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