@elatour

I think the EETimes article was about chips for iPod nano.

BTW: There was a follow-up on this article at EETimes as Apple seemed not to happy about Samsung commenting on the deal in public.

Snipped from:
Intel to sell XScale business

Quote:

It's critical to understanding the switch that you not underestimate the importance of Intel's XScale to Apple's decision to leave IBM. The current iPods use an ARM chip from Texas Instruments, but we can expect to see Intel inside future versions of the iPod line. So because Apple is going to become an all-Intel shop like Dell, with Intel providing the processors that power both the Mac and the iPod, Apple will get the same kinds of steep volume discounts across its entire product line that keep Dell from even glancing AMD's way.

w

Last edited by mr_white on 08-Jun-2006 at 11:09 PM.

Quote:

If it had to be a custom board, because other x86 boards go out of production too fast for Hyperion to keep up, would it be OK if it didn't have the latest and greatest x86 PC, Latest port, connectors etc...?

How many AmigaOne were sold before it went out of production ?

Come on ! Any PC motherboard is being produced 100 times more than AOne before it goes out of production... And even then it is a lot easier (and cheaper !!) to get one than to get an AOne.

Quote:

And what if the price of this new board with the x86(hopefully at least an AMD please) was not that different from what the eyetech boards were?

Why would it be more expensive than any pc motherboard ?
Well, yes, it could be, if they decide to put some Amiga sticker on it, and sell it as an "Amiga". But what would be the point ? And isn't Hyperion a software company ?

Quote:

Would there not be a ton of direct comparisons from Windows to AmigaOS4?

There's no comparison. Current AmigaOS is and will remain for a long time inferior to any current mainstream OS, in about every aspect.

Leo.

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@billt

Quote:

No, we don't need x86 to add to the software feature set. Adding Java JVM does nto require x86. See BBRV's postings about Sun porting Java on the Peg as proof against x86 requirement for that. Memory protection does not require x86, resource tracking does not require x86, multi-user filesystem does not require x86, pthreads do not require x86, Radeon overlay does not require x86, I'll stop here to save space...

I recall, UBOOT has a light weight X86 emulation...

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

The PPC is the only hardware that can make the Amiga different from the others "PC".

If by different you mean much slower yet more expensive, with no real benefit on a desktop....yes.

The only chance of _good_ 'different' is in the PS3 or a Cell board. The rest is irrelevant hardware-wise..

Quote:

here are several OS's that has failed in the X86 market: Be os for example. Zeta, Haiku: it hard to take off for these.

That one remains yet to be seen, while they have many times more users than OS4. Or were you thinking somehow OS4 has generated more income? Not..

Quote:

OS/2 it's powerfull and strong but never had the mass flavor.

'mass flavor'? OS/2 sold. I think I bought at least two versions of it. It made money, again, unlike OS4.

Quote:

And what about Linux? It's a mess, boy. How many distribution you can count?

Redhat and Novell/SuSE seem to be doing well enough.

So far all your examples of 'bad,' OS4 could only HOPE to become.

Quote:

Starting a new Amiga on X86 project, mean delay again the final realease of OS4. We are waiting OS4 for years, now. Should we restart from scratch? And who provide the money for the port?

Heh. As long as you don't answer your own question above with 'bbrv,' I think that's the first sane thing I've heard you say recently!

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@Atheist

Quote:

There's way too many trolls posting on AmigaWorld.Net these days.

First and only warning being given. The last several posts of your have been nothing but baiting, useless comments, against the TOS. Stop now or go away.

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@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @Atheist Quote: And, why didn't you just post it here? Nothing offensive in your response. Because I don't want to pollute a thread with personal issues. So, please, feel free to use my private mailbox.

Thank you!

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @all I wake up to another 5 page x86 thread. Five pages and nothing new. As you can see, I have nothing new to add either. Here's a very basic summary for those that are too lazy to read it all. Note, it misses some pretty cool parts of the thread such as the bit about the dual-Helgis brain. You really should read the whole thread, it's quite entertaining. Anyway: I want OS4 on x86. You can't have it. Why not? I've told you this thousands of times, look it up. But why not? Sigh, the decision was made a long time ago, too late to go back. Really? Yes really. That's sad. Hey, there are some cool PowerPC chips in the works you know. Really? I'm ok with PowerPC now! Well I'm not. Why not? I want OS4 on x86. ... Hans

Good summary!

Hmm, maybe we can make it a FAQ?

Last edited by wegster on 09-Jun-2006 at 12:28 AM.

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@Tomas

Quote:

Hyperion will only port it to a new ppc platform if someone pays for the port. Even in that case, it is very unlikely that they will get a response from Amiga INC regarding a license for it.

That is not entirely true. It's also been said they (Hyperion) might be willing the eat the porting cost, assuming favorable terms could be worked out, and they were ensured they would recoup their time/$.

Obviously, such a statement is subject to change depending on conditions, and I have no idea what Hyperions knows about 'additional hardware,' if anything, that is not yet known to us.

Whether or not additional licensing is required by Hyperion for another PPC platform isn't entirely clear, but likely.

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@mr_white
Quote:

BTW: There was a follow-up on this article at EETimes as Apple seemed not to happy about Samsung commenting on the deal in public. Snipped from: Intel to sell XScale business Quote: Given this past Saturday's revelation that Intel plans to sell off its XScale and IXP units, it's pretty clear that the above argument is flawed. (The only thing that could rescue it is if Apple bought XScale, which won't happen.) So Apple is not using XScale, and XScale almost certainly did not factor in any substantial way into Apple's decision to move from PowerPC to Intel.

Yes, and that statement was immediately follwed up with this paragraph by the author, who was admitting that he was wrong when he assumed the above:
Quote:

Given this past Saturday's revelation that Intel plans to sell off its XScale and IXP units, it's pretty clear that the above argument is flawed. (The only thing that could rescue it is if Apple bought XScale, which won't happen.) So Apple is not using XScale, and XScale almost certainly did not factor in any substantial way into Apple's decision to move from PowerPC to Intel.

So, not sure what your point in posting that snippet was, but it looked like a bit of creative editing. Pointless though, since the truth is Intel is selling off XScale, and it appears Apple had no intention of ever using XScale in the first place.

But if Apple going Intel HAD been driven by using Intel in the iPod, so what? So far the switch to Intel has been good for Apple. Only someone with a prejudice against a given CPU architecture (or manufacturer in this case) would give a rats a$$. The same software runs on the new Intel Macs, the major difference being that they run quite a bit faster. Far from abandoning the Mac, software makers are offering binaries which run on either platform. There was no conspiracy - but even if there was why is that a problem when everybody involved, including the consumers, benefit? That's just good business - REALLY good business. Not the kind where nobody tells you what's happening and lead people on with empty promises for years on end.

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@wegster
Quote:

The only chance of _good_ 'different' is in the PS3 or a Cell board. The rest is irrelevant hardware-wise..

Nope... PA-Semi would make a good 'different' desktop CPU, and killer laptop CPU too.

Cheers,
Tim

@Helgis

Quote:

How would you survive as a company if only focusing on writing and porting stuffs to PPC? You wouldn't even last for 5 years. If you're going to earn a lot of money and being on the pair with the biggest companies in the IT-business today, you need to face reality, and you need to follow that reality in order to hang onto the future...

Uhh, Hyperion is never going to be 'on par with the biggest companies in IT today.'

MANY companies aren't, and they make plenty of money.

Since when does a provately held company owe random customers explanations of what may be a private business plan?

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to know WTF any long term plans are, IF there are any...but it's not a 'requirement' for them to share them, and without knowing them, YOU certainly can't claim to know any 'better.'

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@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @Zylesea [quote] Zylesea wrote: Tell me about it. Supposedly Apple doesn't represent enough of the market to hurt the makers of the PPC by abandoning them... yet Intel will give them price breaks to gain that same market that didn't dent the PPC makers? Which is it? Surely Apple represent even LESS of the x86 market, than they did the PPC market. (I thought iPods used PPC?)

iPods are powered by small SoCs by portalplayer. Models are PP5002 (1st-3rd gen), then PP5020 (4th gen, photo & mini 1st gen), PP5021(nao & video) and PP5022 (mni 2nd gen).

Those processors use cores licensed from ARM. The 5002 uses a dual core ARM7, the 5020 as well but faster, the 5022 and 5021 I do not know but I guess they are quite similar.

Apple's move to intel was definitely not about the ipod - portalplayers is a publically held company. Other cruical parts (ram, flash, battery, display or hdds are also not by intel).
The intel move was mosty about mobile processors, Freesale and ibm did not deliver decent products fast enough.

I understand Apple's move, but I'd suggest Apple to not forget the ppc completely. OS X is ready for both architectures anyway, so are the apps. Aple *can* use both architectures - I hope they will.
The G5 is not bad, the coming 8641D is a nice low power low cost processor, also PA Semi may deliver cool (sic!) stuff. Enough interesting ppcs - I hope Apple will not forget that architecture completely.

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@T_Bone

Quote:

Tell me about it. Supposedly Apple doesn't represent enough of the market to hurt the makers of the PPC by abandoning them... yet Intel will give them price breaks to gain that same market that didn't dent the PPC makers?

Apple isn't a financial loss for IBM, or not a significant one. Intel often uses pricing tactics similar to MS, in they offer 'higher discounts' if they 'get what they want.' You'll note IBM _used_ to have a line of Opteron workstations and servers? No longer AFAIK, while the industry really wanted Opteron boxes.

'Special pricing.' In the case of Apple, it's a huge PR/marketing win for Intel, and I expect their pockets were deeper than AMDs, allowing them to cut pricing even further, or even at a loss, in order to get the marketing win, regardless of AMD64 being superior.

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@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote: @Atheist Quote: Atheist wrote: Oh wait, there's proof that you're here to annoy people. I'm beginning to think Atheist is just here to annoy people.

Then press Abuse Report, but don't add to the baiting before it escalates. Thanks.

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@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @jorkany Quote: jorkany wrote: @T_Bone [quote](I thought iPods used PPC?) iPods use neither PPC nor Intel CPU, it uses ARM.

So it's the ARM that got cheaper by moving from PPC to x86?

(I tried to think of something "Arm and a leg" related, but failed to come up with a punchline)[/quote]

Quite possibly, as Intel makes StrongARM and has licensing agreements in place, and now XScale..

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@jorkany

Quote:

If you haven't had a Mac since the dawn of the 21st century, you might not recall the problems with getting Motorola to produce faster G4s and ultimately the G5. The problem became bad enough that Apple switched to IBM, only to run into a similar problem. IBM could not deliver G5s in the 3+Ghz range, and they could not produce a G5 suitable for notebooks. I don't think "cheaper" is the issue - products in the Mac line are about the same price as they have been, except now you get a significantly faster product. I for one applaud the move to x86.

Not to mention SJ's claims of 'we will break 2GHZ in PowerBooks' from err, how long ago? I'm sure that added to the decision, along with pricing..

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@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @T_Bone Quote: Who needs pick up lines with a name like that? Joking apart, I heard that outside Italy "Fabio" is a bit like the male counterpart of "Deborah" or "Luana" here in Italy... is that right? Wait, how would you know that...

If you mean it's common (?), not at all in the US at least. I expect T-Bone's ref was to the singer..or whatever he is..?

http://www.fabioifc.com/

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@mr_white

Quote:

mr_white wrote: @elatour I think the EETimes article was about chips for iPod nano. BTW: There was a follow-up on this article at EETimes as Apple seemed not to happy about Samsung commenting on the deal in public. Snipped from: Intel to sell XScale business Quote: It's critical to understanding the switch that you not underestimate the importance of Intel's XScale to Apple's decision to leave IBM. The current iPods use an ARM chip from Texas Instruments, but we can expect to see Intel inside future versions of the iPod line. So because Apple is going to become an all-Intel shop like Dell, with Intel providing the processors that power both the Mac and the iPod, Apple will get the same kinds of steep volume discounts across its entire product line that keep Dell from even glancing AMD's way. w

Good link, thanks. We'll see if it happens. That would be interesting if the long term goal had involved sourcing Intel fabbed CPUs for iPods, but I expect they're still seeing enough special pricing to make it a no-brainer for Apple, and there's also the possibility of some future Apple products as well..

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@T_Power

Quote:

T_Power wrote: @wegster Quote: The only chance of _good_ 'different' is in the PS3 or a Cell board. The rest is irrelevant hardware-wise.. Nope... PA-Semi would make a good 'different' desktop CPU, and killer laptop CPU too. Cheers, Tim

Which chip, as in a significantly different architecture?

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@wegster
Quote:

you mean it's common (?), not at all in the US at least. I expect T-Bone's ref was to the singer..or whatever he is..?

No, I don't mean it's common, quite the opposite actually. Deborah and Luana are considered quite uncommon, exotic and even associated with erotism of some sort, in Italy.

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