@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote: @Tigger Quote: Well apparently AI(D) offered 2M to do that very thing and Hyperion said no. Talking about offering 2mil and accually putting the cold hard cash on the desk in front of you are far different things. Was there ever a guaranteed check delivered and rejected by Hyperion like the one for $25K?

We have no idea, but it doesnt matter, both lawyers have talked about it, so it most likely really happened. If Hyperion was worried about the money really existing they could have asked for it to be put into escrow (ie call AI's bluff if it was one). They didnt, thats why they arent saying the 2M offer wasnt real, etc, they are just saying the OS is worth that much. Its not really, it may have cost that much, but it surely isnt worth that much in its current condition running on underpowered hardware.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

You guys keep mixing this up. Itec got classic OS and the contract involving 4.0 from AI(D) as part of a first secured creditor situation, there is really no issue with the this transfer, as first secured creditor they are ahead of Bolten anyways. The other issue is that AI(w) was still a solvent company after the transaction, they still owned all the trademarks, the DE IP, etc. The transfer that has always had issues is the AI(w) - KMOS transfer because of the debt issues, however that isnt involved in the NY Court case at all, which is the subject this topic is about.

'Up up up and down
Turn turn turnaround
Round round roundabout
And over again'

KMOS being AiD and it's not related..

As a first secured creditor they ought to be known that way, otherwise Bolton Peck would get ihis money first. If they are not knowledgeable they're as good as non existent. BP had their rule, and in his case that should be brought up, and was it?

Quote:

The Itec transfer shouldnt be the one anyone is questioning, a first secured creditor took the collateral back, that happens all the time, it doesnt mean anything illegal happened or that any other creditors were getting ripped off.

Creditor1:	hey look, you're getting thiner and thiner, anytime soon you're vanishing, what dell is happening?
Company:	don't look at me, I'm just the company... seek yourself out

Last edited by pixie on 18-Jul-2007 at 09:33 AM.
Last edited by pixie on 18-Jul-2007 at 09:32 AM.

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@pixie

Can we stop that Peck thing now? It doesnt make more sense if you repeat it more often.

Peck was not told who will get money before him. There is no reason to.
Peck was awarded a judgement that he is entitled to a sum money, thats all.
If Amiga didnt pay, he could have sued again, possibly find Amiga bankrupt, wait for the assets to be auctioned, sold, whatever and somewhen possibly receive some money. However, he didnt sue again. Amiga wasnt found bankrupt. He wasnt told who will get money/assets first.

Seriously guys, aren't you tired of going around in circles, repeating the same old arguments over and over and over and over, like a broken record? All I see is people with huge ego saying "I know better, this is how it's gonna happen" yet nobody is convincing anyone of anything, it's IMHO a complete waste of time to argue with someone with such huge ego who clearly always thinks he's right. Everyone made their point, presented their views, but repeating what you think will happen or what you wish to happen over and over isn't going to change the outcome, and there are much better things to do in life until those decisions are made by the court.

@Ketzer

I'll just add this, what Amiga done was shadow, had cover all the tricks on the book, and if you see the latest documents they have no sign of slowing down.

You stand for what you believe, and Amiga I nowadays is nothing more then a scam company, full of games shell and otherwise, and BP case is just the tip of it...

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@Tigger

Quote:

Its not really, it may have cost that much, but it surely isnt worth that much in its current condition running on underpowered hardware.

It’s not Hyperion’s fault that Amiga made a contract restricting AmigaOS to hardware that was hopeless buggy from the start, if it was up Hyperion they most likely they port the OS to Pegasus2 when that hit the market, and avoiding working around the poorly designed “Articia S” chipset, Genesi after all abandoned the Pegasus 1 design because of it, Mai Logic when bust because of it, Linux does not even work correctly on AmigaOne because of it.

Hyperion can many ways document way there was delays, way 3d support was delayed, way Audio issues did take longer to resolve, and so on, I will say this strongly we have AmigaOS4 despite all the problems, in fact AmigaOS contract should have been cancelled a long time go, because of the problem whit HW, because contract original definition of AmigaOne hardware was about add-on card for Amiga1200 and Amiga4000.

What I don’t understand is way Hyperion should take cost of delays during the development phase whit out, Amiga Inc or ITec paying for the extra costs added because of there stupid contract that prohibited Hyperion from finding a easier solution better hardware.

The buggy hardware shore did put many off, let’s have look for x86 threads her on Amigaworld, and way not port MiniMac or so on, in my option AmigaInc wonted Hyperion to fail.

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@Tigger

Simple speculation on my part.
Amiga Wasington/ITEC 2003 dealings were not transparent and not documented properly.
This should be enough to sink the AMIGA Delaware/ITEC ship.

Over and out.

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@Ketzer

Quote:

Ketzer wrote: @Spectre660 Quote: Spectre660 wrote: @Ketzer See PDF NO 52 page 29: Amiga Delaware's own documentation. Here KMOS seem to be buying the OS4.0 rights from the ITEC/Hyperion 2003 contract. Not the Rights from Amiga Washington for the 2001 contract. Gets confusing in it's meaning as IANAL. I dont see the point youre trying to make. Itec sold in that contract the entire OS4.0 IP, not just the contract. At that point Itec should have already received everything from Hyperion and any transfer clause shouldnt have mattered anymore. So Amiga sues for copyright infringement; the copyrights they already received from Itec. And Itec sues for nonperformance in one contract that was the basis for another contract.

How can you sue for non-performance of a contract you no longer own?

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Spectre660 Quote: Spectre660 wrote: @Ketzer See PDF NO 52 page 29: Amiga Delaware's own documentation. Here KMOS seem to be buying the OS4.0 rights from the ITEC/Hyperion 2003 contract. Not the Rights from Amiga Washington for the 2001 contract. Gets confusing in it's meaning as IANAL. No thats why the lawsuit in New York will go forward. Itec bought the classic OS including the contract from AI(D), they then sign a contract with Hyperion for the ... -Tig

Yes, you are getting even yourself confused with all your spin...

Last edited by Lou on 18-Jul-2007 at 12:51 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 18-Jul-2007 at 12:51 PM.

@Tigger

Quote:

Absolutely, and its not the first time, we have them asking for it in at least one of the other emails between Evert and either Garry or Bill. Somewhere at 4.5 years late, you have to start thinking, lets take what they have and pay someone to finish it for us.

Late 4.5 years?! How so? The 2001 contract wasn't for a complete PPC port with all
the extras they have today. It wasn't actually much more than exec ported with
everything else running emulated. Yes, some additional modules aswell.
If the Escena hardware had worked they probably could have been finished with the
original plan in 2002. Or at the very latest 2003.

To me the strangest thing is that no new contract was signed when the playing field
changed. In March 2002 both parties must have known it would take much longer to
do OS4. Then all the bugs in the A1 hardware which slowed down the development.

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@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: @Lou Quote: Amiga Inc. should have sold themselves to a mutual venture between Hyperion and Eyetech as they were the only 2 companies that were really supporting the platform's future. And there should have been peace in the middle east, too, and goodwill to all mankind. And a Winnebago! How much would Hyperion have been able to contribute to such a buyout in early 2003? Remember that according to the information provided so far, the reason the buyback money was paid in Q2/03 was that Hyperion was about to go broke, and an extra $25k might save them... How much would Eyetech have been able (and willing) to contribute? Eyetech, who for all we know may never have had any issues with Amiga (and probably plenty with Hyperion, because as the 2001 contract states "The successful roll-out of the AmigaONE hardware hinges in part on the availability of AmigaOS 4.0")? Eyetech, who at the time had shipped a few G3 SEs, but was trying to get G4s into the pipeline (which means pre-financing their production, without actual income)? Do you really think that between them, they could have wiped Amiga's debts, even if they wanted to? If so, there is some prime real estate in Florida I would like to talk to you about...

Then you draft a business plan in the form of a joint venture and find some venture capitalists to invest in your venture... Does that ring a bell? Isn't that what Amino did?

In 2003, Hyperion didn't ship any new products but were heavily invested in OS4 development. If AInc. was having money problems and didn't care about the OS and only cared about the DE, they should have sold it off. The fact that the OS was only going to be a future optional $25000 investment is what made them keep the contract as a whim. The could have sold the Amiga OS trademarks and kept AmigaDE and AmigaAnywhere. It was a whim and a means to generate cash with a "coupon" offer.

@Tigger

Quote:

We have no idea, but it doesnt matter, both lawyers have talked about it,

Of course it matters. I don't doubt Hyperion and Amiga Inc talked about it. You can talk about paying me for a product from now till dooms day. You can even talk about how you're going to triple the payment just for good measure. But I'm not handing over the goods until I see the funds in my account.

Until more is made known, I speculate that Amiga Inc felt it was cheaper to take it to court than to actually pay $2mil or whatever Hyperion was asking for.

Plaz

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @Tigger Quote: Absolutely, and its not the first time, we have them asking for it in at least one of the other emails between Evert and either Garry or Bill. Somewhere at 4.5 years late, you have to start thinking, lets take what they have and pay someone to finish it for us. Late 4.5 years?! How so? The 2001 contract wasn't for a complete PPC port with all the extras they have today. It wasn't actually much more than exec ported with everything else running emulated. Yes, some additional modules aswell. If the Escena hardware had worked they probably could have been finished with the original plan in 2002. Or at the very latest 2003. To me the strangest thing is that no new contract was signed when the playing field changed. In March 2002 both parties must have known it would take much longer to do OS4. Then all the bugs in the A1 hardware which slowed down the development.

This is why I feel Hyperion should be the ones terminating the contract. Both Eyetech (failed to deliver the Escenda board) and Amiga Inc. (failed to deliver all the sources) breached the terms of the contract almost immediately.

Once Hyperion terminated this contract, whomever (if anyone) owns the trademarks will be forced to negociate a new contract with them. Meanwhile, Hyperion still maintains it's contracts with developers and when an "official" OS 4 finally ships, it can pay them.

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @Tigger Late 4.5 years?! How so? The 2001 contract wasn't for a complete PPC port with all the extras they have today. It wasn't actually much more than exec ported with everything else running emulated. Yes, some additional modules aswell. If the Escena hardware had worked they probably could have been finished with the original plan in 2002. Or at the very latest 2003.

Youre not seriously asking why they are late? When they had to use best efforts to finish within 6 months? Whatever Hyperion did more than they were supposed to do only shows that they didnt use their best efforts to get their job done. Sure do I want the new features, that doesnt change the fact that Hyperion ran off on their own, ignoring their contracts and obligations, possibly having damaged the development more than helped, we'll never know.

Quote:

To me the strangest thing is that no new contract was signed when the playing field changed. In March 2002 both parties must have known it would take much longer to do OS4. Then all the bugs in the A1 hardware which slowed down the development.

This is exactly the point where Hyperion should have terminated the contract and cut their losses. Instead they went on, taking longer and longer, refusing to comply to the buyback. This deception, keeping the money, even asking for more, obviously without any intent to actually transfer the source, is the one thing I hold against Hyperion that has started all of this mess. Whatever cards Hyperion play, whatever clever argument they pull, they cant change the fact that they tried to deceive Amiga and claim the OS for their own.

@Samwel
Quote:

Late 4.5 years?! How so? The 2001 contract wasn't for a complete PPC port with all the extras they have today.

Then why did Hyperion do more than they had been contracted to do? I'll reuse my housing analogy here. If I hire a contractor to build me a house without a pool and he decides to built a pool anyway, I don't pay any more than what I contracted for. I don't reward the contractor for being a chump.

Quote:

To me the strangest thing is that no new contract was signed when the playing field changed. In March 2002 both parties must have known it would take much longer to do OS4.

Yes, you would think Hyperion would have sought to terminate the old contract which they had agreed to already, yet they did not.

Quote:

Then all the bugs in the A1 hardware which slowed down the development.

What bugs? I've heard from several AmigaOne owners that there are no bugs.

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@Lou

Quote:

Meanwhile, Hyperion still maintains it's contracts with developers and when an "official" OS 4 finally ships, it can pay them.

What you praise Hyperion for, is actually what they are doing wrong. Why do they still contract developers when their contractual work was done in 2004? Why didnt they release and market OS4.0 for the Cyberstorm cards? Instead theyre collecting more and more debt to many people that they cant pay even in the unlikely event that they're free to sell OS4 on their own.

@Lou

Quote:

How can you sue for non-performance of a contract you no longer own?

They owned that contract at the time of the first attempt to invoke the buyback.
Hyperion claims indirectly that Itec still owns this contract.
I dont see any document stating that this 2003 contract has been sold / transferred.

@NutsAboutAmiga

I ain't gonna argue point to point, I just want to gratulate you for your exam in "rewriting history for runaways"

Hyperion did sign that contract.

When it was time to make a descision (April 2002) they didn't took the most open interpration of of the actual contract, but instead insisted that it was even more restricted than anything you'll find in it.

As long as the A1-SE was available there was no problem with the HW(well thats what the told us).
As long as the A1-XE was available there were only problems with the SE.
As long as the uA1 was available there were only problems in the SB.

Only after MAI/Eyetech went the way of the doodoo they admited that the Articia was crap.


In short, they should have never signed a contract based on (the allready failed) Escena-A1, and when the problems with the MAI-One became obvious they should have insisted in opening their market.

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@Ketzer

Quote:

Hyperion claims indirectly that Itec still owns this contract

No they don’t, they clams it was never transferred correctly to KMOS there it was the 2003 agreement is invalid, because they failed to notify Hyperion and Eyetech, prior to the transferee of the IP.

They also clame that Amiga Inc(w) does not exist, or was insolvent at the time, after the contract the IP is transferred to Hyperion, not ITec, it’s explicitly written in the contract.

Because Hyperion delved the contract to void anyway, they continued to develop the os as if they head explicit right to develop it, Amiga(w) if they existed should have terminated the agreement prior being insolvent, to avid this, they did not, not no longer clear how has the right to do what, and how own what.

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@Ketzer

Quote:

Ketzer wrote: @Lou Quote: Meanwhile, Hyperion still maintains it's contracts with developers and when an "official" OS 4 finally ships, it can pay them. What you praise Hyperion for, is actually what they are doing wrong. Why do they still contract developers when their contractual work was done in 2004? Why didnt they release and market OS4.0 for the Cyberstorm cards? Instead theyre collecting more and more debt to many people that they cant pay even in the unlikely event that they're free to sell OS4 on their own.

Personally I think they should release the Cyberstorm version immediately and start making some money and start to pay developers... That version was put off in favor of the A1 version. Why the buggered A1 version came first - I will never know...