@umisef

It seems I missed that Hyperion statements. I'm not speaking for them,
this was my private opinion.

@umisef
You are twisting things. Hyperion say that their contract with Amiga Inc only gave them the right to develop for A1 & Classic hardware, but they also believe that clauses in that contract have been triggered that finally gives them rights to develop for anything they want. Of course, Amiga Inc disagree with the latter claim, and hence the court case. And it would be pretty stupid of Hyperion to develop OS4 for potentially unlicensed hardware, before the court case has decided it.

N.B. Although I didn't believe it, I am finally starting to think that Rogue may be right - that you do have an axe to grind with Hyperion

_________________
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@ChrisH

Wouldn't that same line of thought lead to no further development of OS4 (even the actual release of final update) until the court has decided the case? Axe or not what Umisef stated makes sense.

@ChrisH

Quote:

they also believe that clauses in that contract have been triggered that finally gives them rights to develop for anything they want.

No, not "finally give". That implies that's something which is pretty much happening now. Hyperion's stated belief is that this happened 4 years ago (insolvency) or 2.5 years ago (6 months after December 2004 release).

Quote:

it would be pretty stupid of Hyperion to develop OS4 for potentially unlicensed hardware, before the court case has decided it.

It wouldn't be any more stupid than to sell a potentially unlicensed derivative of Amiga's IP while the court case is ongoing --- and they have done that.

Quote:

I am finally starting to think that Rogue may be right - that you do have an axe to grind with Hyperio

I have multiple axes to grind with most of the players... But that has nothing to do with my habit of pointing out inconsistencies between stated positions and observed actions.

I mean, honestly --- can you give one good reason why Hyperion would release OS4 for CSPPC, but not OS4 for MacMini?

@stew who said Quote:

Wouldn't that same line of thought lead to no further development of OS4 (even the actual release of final update) until the court has decided the case?

No, because the judge said that Hyperion can act as if the contract was still valid (i.e. develop for A1 & Classic but nothing else), until the court case finishes.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@umisef
Quote:

No, not "finally give". That implies that's something which is pretty much happening now. Hyperion's stated belief is that this happened 4 years ago (insolvency) or 2.5 years ago (6 months after December 2004 release).

Yes, but they didn't KNOW *all* the facts (see court case crap) until rather after the fact. That doesn't mean Hyperion's hands are completely clean (they should have rewritten the contract as soon as it became out-dated rather than hoping for the best), but it does make their actions understandable.

AI's actions are also understandable (to a point), but I hope they loose because they seem to have much less interest in OS4 as a living product for the desktop market, among other reasons.

Quote:

It wouldn't be any more stupid than to sell a potentially unlicensed derivative of Amiga's IP while the court case is ongoing --- and they have done that.

Ummm, that's your opinion, not a fact. My take is that Hyperion are hoping for a complete win, but are hedging their bets for a partial win (which is sensible). I.E. They are acting as if the contract with Amiga Inc is still valid (as the judge has temporarily allowed), so if it gets ruled that Amiga Inc still owns OS4 (but didn't have the right to cancel the contract) then Hyperion are in the clear.

Quote:

I have multiple axes to grind with most of the players... But that has nothing to do with my habit of pointing out inconsistencies between stated positions and observed actions.

That's what I told Rogue many times, but the fact that you focus almost *entirely* on Hyperion, and are exceedingly quick to jump on the most negative possible interpretation, is gradually changing my opinion (from certain you are unbiased to strong suspicion that you may not be). Your last post (that I commented on) and another recent one are what changed my mind.

Quote:

I mean, honestly --- can you give one good reason why Hyperion would release OS4 for CSPPC, but not OS4 for MacMini?

Yes, see this & my previous recent posts on this thread.

Last edited by ChrisH on 22-Dec-2007 at 04:45 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

So, will anyone admit to getting this working or have we given up?

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@ChrisH

Quote:

Yes, but they didn't KNOW *all* the facts (see court case crap) until rather after the fact.

Excuse me? They certainly *should* have known in June 2005 that they released OS4 in December 2004. After all, there was a joint press release about it half a year earlier, which they think should have been enough for *Amiga* to realise this was The Release.

They also certainly should have known in June 2005 that they had a contract with a 6 months deadline after The Release, and that said deadline had expired.


Quote:

They are acting as if the contract with Amiga Inc is still valid (as the judge has temporarily allowed)

Actually, all the judge said that there was no need for an urgent injunction, because nothing either party could do would cause damages which could not be cured by money alone. Thus the Status Quo (which *does* include the contract having been cancelled) was maintained.
There seems to be a common misunderstanding that refusing to grant an urgent injunction is equivalent to saying "carry on, the contract is good". It just means the first part of that, coupled with "we will sort it out in good time, and then make whoever did bad pay for it".

Quote:

but the fact that you focus almost *entirely* on Hyperion

Well, Amiga (whichever one) doesn't *do* much. Thus, they are very unlikely to act in a way that contradicts their stated position. Even if they actually managed to make up their mind about what their stated position is.... They also don't do much else, so I am unlikely to get into disagreements with them over their loose interpretation of license terms, either, for example.

Do I think they are a bunch of lying crooks? Oh, absolutely! Do I think they are better at it than Hyperion? Well, yeah. And do I think their story in this lawsuit tells much better than Hyperion's? Totally. Which is indeed a shame, because when it comes to lying crooks, I personally prefer the inept kind --- but I can't see the inept side winning this one.

@umisef

If Hyperion got 1200% more time to complete Amiga OS 4, then they had enough time to inform Amiga Inc that they though they need more source code, via email, letter and news announcements. They also had enough time to print an Invoice with an outstanding balance, fully itemized and Tax compliant. So this is a no no zone for Hyperion.

But I do think Hyperion's continuation of the contract is probably still valid. This is open ended mind you, but the contract probably is still legal until Amiga Inc and Hyperion are given their options in court by the judge. I think they are still being recommended to hold hands.

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@umisef

Quote:

Except Hyperion says that they have had an all-encompassing license for either the last 4 or at least the last 2.5 years.

A point I have always tried to make - which led me to conclude OS4 has only recently been completed, because why else would they sit on a finished product for so long?

@Benji

Quote:

A point I have always tried to make - which led me to conclude OS4 has only recently been completed, because why else would they sit on a finished product for so long?

Nothing to do with OS4 being complete, all to do with the court case.
If AInc hadn't started the court case, Hyperion wouldn't have to defend itself, and such things as perpetual license wouldn't have been raised..

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Swoop

Quote:

If AInc hadn't started the court case, Hyperion wouldn't have to defend itself, and such things as perpetual license wouldn't have been raised..

So you are saying Hyperion has known for 2.5 years that they had this all-encompassing license, but for the two years until the court case came around, they chose to not port to all the widely available hardware, while publicly deflecting blame towards Amiga Inc?

Man, you are harsh!

@umisef

Quote:

So you are saying Hyperion has known for 2.5 years that they had this all-encompassing license, but for the two years until the court case came around, they chose to not port to all the widely available hardware, while publicly deflecting blame towards Amiga Inc?

Never mind that right up until the lawsuit Rogue's rebuttal towards porting OS4 to *anything* was always "we don't have a license, we don't have a license". But then again, he does not represent Hyperion, so....

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Here for the whimpering end

@Swoop

Quote:

Swoop wrote: @Benji Quote: A point I have always tried to make - which led me to conclude OS4 has only recently been completed, because why else would they sit on a finished product for so long? Nothing to do with OS4 being complete, all to do with the court case. If AInc hadn't started the court case, Hyperion wouldn't have to defend itself, and such things as perpetual license wouldn't have been raised..

Except of course Hyperion has to write a bunch of checks when the OS is done per the contracts they have presented and havent done that, and I'm pretty sure havent been telling the 3rd party developers, sorry we are late with your check for the last 2.5 years. They need to backdate the OS being done, but havent acted in the last 2.5 years (or 4 years since Ben was commenting about the insolvency comment by Bill McEwen) as if they had the license that they now claim that got at one of those occasions.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@umisef

Quote:

So you are saying Hyperion has known for 2.5 years that they had this all-encompassing license, but for the two years until the court case came around, they [b]chose to not port to all the widely available hardware, while publicly deflecting blame towards Amiga Inc? Man, you are harsh!

[/b]
You know that is not what I am saying. Read my post again.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Tigger
As we both know, and you have pointed out previously, there is a heap of difference between meeting the contract requirements, and haveing a saleable modern OS.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

Who cares about that crap? Does the damn loader work or not?

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@Swoop

the big ?
when is the final day of the court case
any date.

if there loose on ? date when will be date for the appel....
anyone know anything about the specfic date ?

@Frags

I think the loader does work as ive been gathering information but only on persific MacMinis more information is needed more testing is needed but unless you own a MacMini, OS4 and the patch its hard to test.


http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/152833.shtml

@BooBoo

It`s tantalizing.

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Fraggle

- insert profound text here -