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      /  OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in (SOLVED!)
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ChrisH 
OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in (SOLVED!)
Posted on 9-Nov-2008 21:40:20
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

I have a really weird problem with my new KVM & my Sam440: While it works great after booting, if I have it plugged in via USB during booting then OS4 boots without a startup-sequence! So I am left at the Shell command prompt

This is a really annoying (and bizarre) problem. I assume that the (KVM's emulated) USB keyboard or mouse is being interpreted wrongly by the Kickstart. Does anyone know what keyboard (or mouse) keys/buttons might cause this? And is there a way to stop it?

Hopefully it might also get fixed for OS4.1 Final... edit: I am willing to run any debug programs required, or supply the KVM to someone involved in OS4.

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Dec-2008 at 05:23 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 10-Nov-2008 at 09:02 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 10-Nov-2008 at 08:34 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 09-Nov-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 09-Nov-2008 at 09:40 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 9-Nov-2008 22:48:05
#2 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3237
From: Sydney (of course)

@ChrisH

That's the same effect as holding the CTRL key while booting. Sorry, can't be more helpful than that.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 9-Nov-2008 22:54:13
#3 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@tonyw
Thanks, that might help narrow my search for a workaround (although I am not hopeful).

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Phantom 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 9-Nov-2008 23:32:45
#4 ]
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Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Why you bought a USB KVM Switch? I use a normal one, with PS2 outs and one VGA out and I never had problems with that.

Last edited by Phantom on 09-Nov-2008 at 11:33 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 10-Nov-2008 12:17:28
#5 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Phantom
Sam440 does not have PS2 keyboard/mouse, I use USB keyboard/mouse for my PC, and I also wanted DVI support (for crystal clear display - VGA even looked slightly shoddy using a direct cable!).

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Severin 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 10-Nov-2008 13:25:34
#6 ]
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Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@ChrisH

It's your KVM not a software problem, for some reason some kvms 'hold a key down' the worst culprits are the ones that switch via a keyboard combination.

Personally I'd whinge to the manufacturer (I did for mine and they send me a newer, netter model free of charge) or simply return it and invest in a belkin kvm, my usb one works with no problems.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 10-Nov-2008 20:33:21
#7 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Severin
I'm amazed that such an obvious problem could get past KVM manufacturers, but I'll take your word on it. An OS4 USB driver fault seemed so much more plausible, since only OS4 was affected.

I'll speak to them (since StarTech responded quite quick when I asked questions before), but it would be great if there was some way to stop Kickstart from responding the Ctrl key. Think I'll ask Rogue...

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 10-Nov-2008 21:02:02
#8 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Severin
I am not so sure that it is a KVM problem, because the KVM's mouse is wrongly interpreted by OS4 at the shell prompt (from no startup-sequence). Specifically, there is almost no horizontal movement & the clicking does not work right either.

Since this works fine *after* OS4 has properly booted, it seems to suggest that Kickstart's basic USB software is unable to handle the KVM's mouse (and probably keyboard). This could also be responsible for the false Ctrl key press.

This is especially plausible, since the problem happens on first (cold) boot, before I have even pressed the Ctrl key.

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gerograph 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 10-Nov-2008 22:06:40
#9 ]
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Joined: 5-Dec-2007
Posts: 901
From: Moers - Germany

@ChrisH

Hi Chris,

looking at your KVM switch, seems to be the same as my one. Looks exactly the same and has similiar functions. My one is just a another brand (called Uniclass). It was quiet expensive, and much more than any Belkin switch, which do not work like they should (just google and have a look in some other forums e.g. Linux...).
Only Problem is, I have a PS/2 one, because I am using OS4 CLASSIC and a Coccolino + RBM Towerhawk Keyboardadaptor. If the Amiga works heavily my mouse freezes sometimes, after unconnecting both computers it works again. Only Scroll wheel start working on Windows machine after that. Under OS3.9 I have no problems at all...
This was the only KVM working for me, I tried several others as well..

Hope this helps a bit...

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 11-Nov-2008 1:16:31
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

OK, the (KVM) mouse's misbehaviour happens up until "C:USBCtrl START" in the startup-sequence.

edit:
Since this starts OS4's (Sirion) USB stack, and replaces "bootmouse" & "bootkeyboard" with proper versions, I think I can blame "bootmouse" & "bootkeyboard" for my KVM problems.

So it seems possible that disabling "bootkeyboard" would stop my KVM from causing problems, so I just need to find out how to do that - at least until "bootkeyboard" gets fixed. Anyone know how to do this? edit: I tried editing the KickLayout file without success, both still worked (after a fashion).

Last edited by ChrisH on 11-Nov-2008 at 09:13 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 11-Nov-2008 at 01:22 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 11-Nov-2008 at 01:21 AM.

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Severin 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 11-Nov-2008 11:11:52
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@ChrisH

look in devs/usb and rename the bootkeyboard file, btw there is a different one on os4depot (with source) you could try.

http://os4depot.net/share/driver/input/rkeyboard.lzx

Quote:

I am not so sure that it is a KVM problem, because the KVM's mouse is wrongly interpreted by OS4 at the shell prompt (from no startup-sequence). Specifically, there is almost no horizontal movement & the clicking does not work right either.


But it doesn't do it with ALL KVMs so it has to be at least partially the fault of your KVM, it must be doing something different that because of windows strict adhearance to unuversal standards magically works on a pc

Last edited by Severin on 11-Nov-2008 at 11:16 AM.

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salass00 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 11-Nov-2008 11:21:27
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2707
From: Finland

@ChrisH

My brother (not an Amiga user) recently had a problem with an USB KVM switch. In his case the mouse was acting like a keyboard, i.e. instead of moving the pointer it would type letters. He solved it by switching the mouse and keyboard to different ports on the KVM.

Last edited by salass00 on 11-Nov-2008 at 11:21 AM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 13-Nov-2008 22:14:20
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Severin
Thanks, but sadly, rkeyboard did not help (or seem to make any difference at all). I also tried removing the existing bootkeyboard/mouse & hid files without luck . Seems like drivers are somehow getting loaded elsewhere, unless I made a mistake.

I doubt it is a fault of the KVM, but rather that the KVM implements keyboard/mouse standard slightly differently to the way OS4 expects. e.g. Someone has report problems with a combined keyboard/mouse PS2 to USB adaptor.

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AmigaHeretic 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 14-Nov-2008 0:34:00
#14 ]
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Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

@Severin

Dude that avatar is TOTALLY inappropriate.

What are we a bunch of animals? I mean really, she looks miserably hot. I know I for one would feel much better for her if you removed that yellow jacket. Jeez... Manners....

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Severin 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 14-Nov-2008 2:07:15
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@AmigaHeretic

I would but that avatar will be keeping DaveyD warm all winter, if i remove the jacket he could overheat...

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Mark 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 14-Nov-2008 9:55:03
#16 ]
Team Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 1457
From: UK

@ChrisH

well I mentioned this quite a while ago and mine is an avocent USB switcher (the only device at the time that had DVI/USB/Audio switching) I basically get similar rpoblems to you. MIne is slightly different in that it stops at exactly the same place, but my mouse then wont let me left click in Workbench, until I've hit escape on the keyboard twice (and yes processing of userstartup AND WBStartup both fail to continue). I would point out this problem gradually occurred to me through upgrades in OS4, ie I had this set-up at the OS4 initial preview stage and everything was fine, as I went through the updates to OS4 this problem started occurring (at one point I had to have the switch attached via a hub and it was fine) although the last couple of updates that makes no difference. The most the previous thread on this could come up with is that its a timing problem and the updates to the USB stack wasnt returning correctly on this particular type of HID devices (ie it finds a keyboard/mouse but probably isnt initializing in quite the way it expects)

Mark

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 15-Nov-2008 10:41:20
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Mark
In a previous thread I thought that the Avocent SwitchView was probably the same (internally) as my KVM. Sounds like I was right. (I also have a problem with left-clicking.)

If only there was a way to prevent Kickstart from responding to Ctrl keypress, then it would boot OK, and then the USB stack would start working correctly.

edit: My first guess as to why a hub used to fixed your problem is that the basic USB software (before the proper OS4 USB stack is started) was not finding keyboard/mouse attached to hubs, and therefore your KVM did not cause a problem. Presumably they "improved" the basic USB software to now works with hubs, and that means your KVM can cause a problem.

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Nov-2008 at 10:52 AM.

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ShInKurO 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 15-Nov-2008 10:53:27
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2004
Posts: 465
From: Italy

Here it happens from years with A1 and KVM PS/2, I've just reported it to Rogue during U-Boot reports on amigans.net...
Yes, it is not a KVM problem, it is an OS4.x related problem which is showed with a KVM is connected...

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 2-Dec-2008 19:40:06
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

ZeroG & Rogue explained how to fix the USB keyboard/mouse boot problem and it fixed my USB KVM problem

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Dec-2008 at 05:17 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 boots without startup-sequence with KVM USB plugged in
Posted on 20-Dec-2008 12:21:29
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@ChrisH
Small update:
I had some problems with my KVM sometimes loosing my OS4 display, even after hard rebooting OS4, un/re-plugging screen cables, etc. I eventually tried disable screen blanking, and have not had any problems since. So there seems to be some incompatibility between my KVM & OS4's stand-by/suspend/power-off screen handling.

EDIT: Since the Quick Fix, screenblanking no-longer causes this problem

Last edited by ChrisH on 10-Aug-2009 at 12:57 PM.

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