@Wildstar128

Quote:

I'm happy to see more folks with AA and can connect with and hopefully re-spark some interest in making some apps for the AA regardless of issues with Amiga Inc. and Hyperion and Bill McEwen and so on. It isn't a bad API and should be able to be jointly used with other APIs, game engines, ect.

Exactly! I would add that AA should not be cause for trouble in the Forum. Just because someone does not like McEwen or Amiga Inc, you do not feel bad about anything that comes from there. It is best to stay neutral to them and instead focus on what can be useful.

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@Wildstar128

Quote:

Wildstar128 wrote: Basically, if Amiga Inc. distributes (hence the agreement there is that Amiga Inc. may distribute software I make and authorize them to distribute) that Amiga Inc. keeps 40%. They must pay me 60%. Not bad if they are doing the distribution service.

I distrubierar my program and other self. Given all the work required for it, I see that 40% to someone who handles the distribution that cheap.
The time I get over, I can develop more programs that provide 60% more profits, etc..

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@Arko

Quote:

Here are some screenshots of SD gamesL: http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&q=SDL+games+screenshots&btnG=Bilder-Suche&gbv=2&aq=f&oq= SDL vs AA2 SDL wins SDl already supports following platform: Win32, Linux, MacOS Classic, MacOSX, and AOS4, AOS3, MOS, AROS, SDL vs AA2 SDL wins again.

The tools you display here is certainly powerful, but it is not that I want.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @linnar Quote: Aa2, however, different modules for different platforms on which the program connects to the platform. I have only tested the module for PC-Win and where it works fine. I have not tested if the controls work as it should, or if you need to include the lib for it. but then it is no longer platform independent. Well I don't know how AA2 solves this, but I still fail to see a significant advantage. Anything 3D (think: Quake) scales with display and can easily adjust to aspect. The textures will be an issue (ever tried to run the original Quake on a 1280x1024 display) but that is relatively easy to fix given different resolutions of textures, or downscaling/filtering textures upon loading. The major issue is fitting everything you can on a screen without overloading it. Some games for example have their heads-up display tuned for a 640x480 screen. Play that on a widescreen TFT, and you need a magnifier. That issue is easily resolved, too, by scaling the interface or using bigger fonts. The key point, however, is that there is always manual work involved, and that work is basically the same independent of platform or underlying technology. SDL supports shared object loading, so, provided the underlying platform supports it (a limitation that will always determine whether this works or not), you can easily load external interface modules from SDL depending on the display device you have.

If Amiga Inc development people resolve / resolved the problem with being treated as different platforms in its various adaptation modules, so much lost in time and simplicity. It means a lot to developers who are relatively new or (I) only have evenings to work on. I think it's great if someone else wrote code that did not directly with the program idea to do. I myself never develop games, I only develop applications but will still try to use Aa2 to benefit programs.


What do you use for tools / packages for the development of OS and games?

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I think SDL and AA is two different types of API mechanism. AA is more a VM API and SDL is more a media API. Serving two different principle purposes. AA is more a hw subsystem API layer.

We could be comparing apples and oranges. You can use SDL or even OpenGL in addition to AA and work from that basis in developing applications and games.

If it was me, I'd use OpenGL or make a custom library for 3D mechanisms. Or modify the AA display/pixel map library for a multi-video layer system with multiple video layers and add it as an extension.

We can make add-ons as with any library but just don't try to make money on it and give recognition of original source architecture.

It all matters but AA serves a different purpose and for the flexibility of so many wide range of systems as it's principle target systems that AA was conceived for.

There is room for ideas and incorporating things like OpenGL 3d library if you want real 3d stuff.

@Wildstar128

Quote:

Wildstar128 wrote: @linnar I'm happy to see more folks with AA and can connect with and hopefully re-spark some interest in making some apps for the AA regardless of issues with Amiga Inc. and Hyperion and Bill McEwen and so on. It isn't a bad API and should be able to be jointly used with other APIs, game engines, ect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiSHcHM0PA

Show me the AA2 apps!

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Jul-2009 at 04:22 PM.

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@linnar

Quote:

Exactly! I would add that AA should not be cause for trouble in the Forum. Just because someone does not like McEwen or Amiga Inc, you do not feel bad about anything that comes from there. It is best to stay neutral to them and instead focus on what can be useful.

So a developer should not care about the maker of any tool and their prospects as a business, or the prospects of continued support & development for the tool from that company?

Rubbish.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

So a developer should not care about the maker of any tool and their prospects as a business, or the prospects of continued support & development for the tool from that company? Rubbish.

With this logic Amiga (or MorphOS or AROS) would be buried long time ago...

Everyone, and I mean everyone who has done buisness with Amino-Clowns-Inc. ended up eating s###.

Thats includes buisness partners, landlords, insurances, the tax man and even normal costumers.

And now they ask you to give up 40% of your revenue in exchange for what ??

Does AA2 reduce the workload needed for an app/game by atleast 50% ? If it doesn't it wouldn't be an an option even if it came from a respectable company.

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@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: So a developer should not care about the maker of any tool and their prospects as a business, or the prospects of continued support & development for the tool from that company? Rubbish. With this logic Amiga (or MorphOS or AROS) would be buried long time ago...

AOS, MOS, and AROS don't claim a goal of being a development platform for making one set of code run on a tremendous amount of disparate devices. Just as their usefulness and base in the real world is very limited, so is that of AA2, but even worse. If you develop for AROS you know ahead of time that at best the code will fuel additions to 3 or 4 hobby desktop operating systems. There is no claim of greater grandeur, there is no heightened expectation. And with AOS, MOS, and AROS there has been activity of progress for all three in the last year and before.

Whereas with AA2 it does not meet its stated goals, not by a longshot. And it has not had any development to get closer to its goals that has been seen. And the goal with AA2 for developers is to be a money maker for developers because you should be able to reach so many platforms. Anyone coding for Amiga-like desktop operating systems already knows the goal is just to come up with something for a very small community where any decent profit is simply not possible.

Linnar and Wildstar128 can maybe make an app with it someday. But if it can't run on almost anything, what was the point in using this tool?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Jul-2009 at 04:56 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

Interestingly enough somebody sent me a video link of good ole Bill demonstrating AA2 on a computer and a GP32x.

Bill actually said "We took the old AmigaOS and virtualised it".

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @linnar Quote: Exactly! I would add that AA should not be cause for trouble in the Forum. Just because someone does not like McEwen or Amiga Inc, you do not feel bad about anything that comes from there. It is best to stay neutral to them and instead focus on what can be useful. So a developer should not care about the maker of any tool and their prospects as a business, or the prospects of continued support & development for the tool from that company? Rubbish.

Of course, it is very important, even if survival is not related to it.
But you can not say anything about it than the Aa2 because one is not released yet.

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@Kronos

Quote:

Everyone, and I mean everyone who has done buisness with Amino-Clowns-Inc. ended up eating s###.

What is Amino-Clown-Inc?

Quote:

And now they ask you to give up 40% of your revenue in exchange for what ??

Note the phrase "And now they ask you".
Thus, it is optional. Ie nothing to get upset over.

Quote:

Does AA2 reduce the workload needed for an app/game by atleast 50% ? If it doesn't it wouldn't be an an option even if it came from a respectable company.

It appears that you decided you Aa2 because you are now upset that you only retain 60% of pure profit. As such, well you already understand that there is actually more than 50% labor savings to encode in pure "C"?

The responses above, I assume that your post is not sarcastic, but seriously.

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@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote: @fairlanefastback Of course, it is very important, even if survival is not related to it. But you can not say anything about it than the Aa2 because one is not released yet.

So only positive promotion is allowed for beta products? People discuss the results from betas all the time and about the companies behind such betas. Windows 7 comes to mind right away.

If you want this to be primarily about positive promotion and related kudos of AA2 then give us some awesome apps and wow us with what AA2 can do for us.

From the AA2 FAQ: (http://www.amiga.com/faqs/)

Quote:

Q: Aren't there other products that already do the same thing? A: Such middleware solutions are certainly not a new idea, and other products with similar goals are already well established and commonly used. AA2 differs in the extent of the number and range of features offered and the ease to which these can be used.

If its so easy and thats why you want to promote AA2, then why can't anyone give us something impressive to see?

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @pavlor Quote: pavlor wrote: @fairlanefastback [quote]So a developer should not care about the maker of any tool and their prospects as a business, or the prospects of continued support & development for the tool from that company? Rubbish. With this logic Amiga (or MorphOS or AROS) would be buried long time ago... AOS, MOS, and AROS don't claim a goal of being a development platform for making one set of code run on a tremendous amount of disparate devices. Just as their usefulness and base in the real world is very limited, so is that of AA2, but even worse. If you develop for AROS you know ahead of time that at best the code will fuel additions to 3 or 4 hobby desktop operating systems. There is no claim of greater grandeur, there is no heightened expectation. And with AOS, MOS, and AROS there has been activity of progress for all three in the last year and before. Whereas with AA2 it does not meet its stated goals, not by a longshot. And it has not had any development to get closer to its goals that has been seen. And the goal with AA2 for developers is to be a money maker for developers because you should be able to reach so many platforms. Anyone coding for Amiga-like desktop operating systems already knows the goal is just to come up with something for a very small community where any decent profit is simply not possible. Linnar and Wildstar128 can maybe make an app with it someday. But if it can't run on almost anything, what was the point in using this tool?

You seem to sit inside mde preliminary information we others do not know.
I had no idea that Amiga Inc would not let Aa2 work on most common platforms.
The information I have is that it should be able to compile several other platforms / OS.
I have also read me to develop moving the focus from Aa2 to OS5. It is not explicitly Aa2 but I guess so.
It would then be the reason that nothing happened in a while to Aa2. We must also remember that Aa2 syntax is the same as OS5 SDK syntax. Ie the development of OS5 should mean a more comprehensive Aa2. But as I said it takes longer.
The risk is always that there is something out of it, depending on the supply of money. For example, ask whether someone has taken over Penti Kouri role as an investor?

It would be interesting to ask Amiga Inc. that, but given all the gauntlet as they had run so I think they learned to not respond to anything.
Ie you this forum is most of all want to know how it is also nag at you quietly from them.

Last edited by linnar on 06-Jul-2009 at 08:12 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @linnar Quote: linnar wrote: @fairlanefastback Of course, it is very important, even if survival is not related to it. But you can not say anything about it than the Aa2 because one is not released yet. So only positive promotion is allowed for beta products? People discuss the results from betas all the time and about the companies behind such betas. Windows 7 comes to mind right away. If you want this to be primarily about positive promotion and related kudos of AA2 then give us some awesome apps and wow us with what AA2 can do for us. From the AA2 FAQ: (http://www.amiga.com/faqs/) Quote: Q: Aren't there other products that already do the same thing? A: Such middleware solutions are certainly not a new idea, and other products with similar goals are already well established and commonly used. AA2 differs in the extent of the number and range of features offered and the ease to which these can be used. If its so easy and thats why you want to promote AA2, then why can't anyone give us something impressive to see?

I would definitely not stuck in a Discussion that will never end. For the last time, Aa2 is a beta product, for the moment, exhausted.

There are certainly some who produce applications with AA2 but it is not certain you want to show the code to their applications. It is the only way to see if it is easy to encode. But you're saying is that you can not read the code. Why be so interested to see the code for a program coded by AA2 when you can not read the code?

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@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote: @fairlanefastback There are certainly some who produce applications with AA2 but it is not certain you want to show the code to their applications. It is the only way to see if it is easy to encode. But you're saying is that you can not read the code. Why be so interested to see the code for a program coded by AA2 when you can not read the code?

You misunderstand. I am saying that if its such a great tool to ease the coding process, why don't we see apps made with it? And why can't the few people outside Amiga, Inc. who back it make an impressive app and then tell us how AA2 really helped to cut down on development time etc.?

What good is a development tool that no one seems to be using to develop anything? If it has the main strength that Amiga, Inc. claims it does in its FAQ and that you seem to agree with, then why can't anyone demonstrate this power to us with an outputted worthwhile program of some sort?

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@linnar

Quote:

But you're saying is that you can not read the code. Why be so interested to see the code for a program coded by AA2 when you can not read the code?

As far as I'm aware nobody asked to see code.

Examples of applications made using AA is what people have been asking for.

Yea yea I know, it's beta... blah blah

@linnar

Quote:

I had no idea that Amiga Inc would not let Aa2 work on most common platforms.

Bill himself said in video from Digital Experience 2008 that they did not yet support a bunch of platforms with it. That basic public knowledge about AA2.

The disturbing part was extra OS support was not supposed to be far away at that point. But as far as we know in the public, 1.5 years later no other operating systems have been added.

Since you have access to Amiga, Inc.'s AA2 developer area, please let us know if that is no longer the case. Obviously if they started to support a bunch of operating systems that may be a game changer for their situation!

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@linnar

Quote:

I distrubierar my program and other self. Given all the work required for it, I see that 40% to someone who handles the distribution that cheap.

Alternately you can develop for the iPhone, Apple ask for 30% but it gives you access to a highly popular store and close to 20 million potential customers.

That sounds like a rather better deal to me.

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