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 pixie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 21-Feb-2010 22:09:24
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Elite Member
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3130
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal | | |
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paolone
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 21-Feb-2010 22:16:39
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Super Member
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Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos
Quote:
| As I wrote it doesn't matter how it works, only how it's used. In this context running "native" apps under X11 is just the same as running them in an emulator or even over VNC on another computer |
Well, actually not. You're not emulating anything, you just need another "layer" on top of your GI to get some graphic functions needed by applications correctly addressed. When I run AbiWord on AmigaOS 4.1 I feel it a little "alien" to the rest of the system, but this is due to the fact that AbiWord doesn't use standard Amiga toolkits, and the X11 server has opened its own screen. Nothing, however, prevents you from creating a "rootless" X-Server which is basically a graphic daemon which could open its windows on the workbench screen. This way, X11 apps would look better integrated with the others. I once used a X-server on Windows which worked that way, and it wasn't so bad after all.
Graphics apart, everything else is working on your Amiga using its processor instructions, its underlying technologies etcetera |
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DiskDoctor
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 21-Feb-2010 22:21:24
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Cult Member
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Joined: 3-Feb-2009
Posts: 632
From: Rzeszow, Poland | | |
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| @Kronos
Quote:
Did I say anything against useing Basilisk ? If I really needed acces to "xls" (thats Excel isn't it) which I don't I would either try loading it with TurboCalc
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Must have missed that one somehow then. Reason: see my post regarding MorphOS app pack.
Quote:
or just use the proper tools on the proper OS ...
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You mean Windows?
Now that's strong words out there, even against this very discussion's explicitness  _________________
Amiga 1200 + WARP 1260 + AmigaOS 3.2 |
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paolone
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 21-Feb-2010 22:24:02
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Super Member
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Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown | | |
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| @phase5fan
Quote:
| The only argument you have is your ridiculous belief that x86 is faster |
My ridiculous belief is something Apple - and any other serious IT specialist out there - agrees with. I'm sorry for PPC advocates, but current x86 processors are faster, smarter, cheaper, more parallelized and also more green (since they need less power to run at faster frequencies).
Please call me when you'll buy for less than 250 dollars a PowerPC processor better than a cheap Core i5 750. |
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pavlor
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 21-Feb-2010 22:38:20
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Elite Member
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9593
From: Unknown | | |
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| @paolone
Quote:
| I don't even want to imagine the hidden costs of this wonderful magic, when pieces of PPC code have to deal with 68K code and vice-versa |
You can read OS4 features list - v 1.0 (2003) (section Exec SG, page 4-8) for more info about the emulation in ExecSG. However, some parts could be obsolete. |
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$adddam
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 0:33:35
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Regular Member
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Joined: 24-May-2006
Posts: 194
From: magyarorszag /=hungary/ | | |
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GENRE |AmigaOS3(68k) |Amiga OS4 |MorphOS |AROS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word-processing | | |Pagestream |
Spreadsheets | | |Turbocalc |
Presentations | | |Hollywood |
Browsing | | |OWB, Ibrowse |
E-mailing | | |SimpleMail |
Instant Messaging | | |PolynetNG |
Databases | | |MUIBase |
Text Editing | | |MorphOS Ed |
C/C++ IDE | | |Cubic IDE |
Painting | | |TVPaint |
Printing | | | |
3D Rendering | | |Blender |
File Management | | |Ambient, DOpus |
Playing Audio | | |AmiNetRadio, Mplayer|
Playing Video | | |Mplayer |
Playing DVD | | |Mplayer |
Editing Audio | | |Samplitude |
Editing Video | | |Blender |
Music Creation | | |Digibooster, HD-Rec |
Sound Sampling | | |Samplitude |
CD/DVD burn/rip | | |Frying Pan, MakeCD |
Torrents | | |MLDonkey, Beehive |
Youtube | | |OWB, getvideo |
PDF Viewing | | |APDF |
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HenryCase
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 0:58:52
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Cult Member
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Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown | | |
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| @ChrisH
Thanks for the info. So how does a JIT decide how many instructions to cache? Is speed calculated by the JIT before the it runs properly? |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 3:44:27
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @$adddam
Thanks $addam.
Please excuse me if I am wrong, but isn't Cubic IDE 68k only and running under emulation?
I notice a few people are saying that differentiating between 68k emulation and native code does not make sense. I know that the 68k emulation may be awesome on your system, but I am trying to find a common denominator with 68k. I am trying to discover the true state of software for each particular system and discern if it is achieved via 68k emulation or not. Therefore, *depending on your emulation sensibilities* you may argue that by having the same application available on the other platform you would be relatively unaffected by a switch to the other platform.
Seeing as I am making the rules for the list, I would also like to state my intention to add an asterisk(*) after commercial programs in the list. If an application genre is fulfilled by 68k emulated software it is sufficient to leave the cell blank in the list. I am not expecting every cell to be filled for the sake of it, especially if the best solution is achieved via 68k emulation. _________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 6:00:47
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| Please note that this is the first draft and work in progress.
I will rely on the users of these systems for software suggestions.
GENRE |AmigaOS3(68k) |Amiga OS4 |MorphOS |AROS
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Word-processing |AbiWord |AbiWord | |
Spreadsheets |Turbocalc |Gnumeric | |
Presentations |Hollywood* |PointRider,Hollywood*|Hollywood* |Hollywood*
Browsing | |OWB,IBrowse |OWB,IBrowse |OWB
E-mailing | | |SimpleMail |
Instant Messaging | | |PolynetNG |
Databases | | |MUIBase |
Text Editing | | |MorphOS Ed |
C/C++ IDE |Cubic IDE* | |Cubic IDE* |
Painting |TVPaint*,PPaint* | | |
Printing | | | |
3D Rendering |CINEMA 4D |Blender |Blender |
File Management |DOpus | |DOpus |
Playing Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Tunenet |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |Mplayer
Playing Video | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Streaming Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |
Streaming Video | | | |
Playing DVD | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Editing Audio |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
Editing Video | | | |
Music Creation |Digibooster |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
Sound Sampling |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
CD/DVD burn/rip |FryingPan |FryingPan |FryingPan,MakeCD |FryingPan
Torrents |AmiGift |CTorrent |MLDonkey, Beehive |
Youtube | | |OWB, getvideo |
PDF Viewing |APDF |AmiPDF |APDF |ArosPDF
DTP |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |?
FTP | | | |MarranoFTP
IRC |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat
Image viewing | | |ShowGirls |
Photo retouching | | |ShowGirls |
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* Commercial product.
Correct me if I am wrong with any of the above.
TVPaint, CINEMA 4D, Samplitude, Digibooster, Turbocalc, AmiGift is 68k only
Digibooster has been adapted to be compatable with PPC through emulation.
I have removed Ambient from FileManagment (reserved for discussion of desktop features)
HD-Rec is ambiguous as to its platform support.
DOpus has so many versions, I don't know what is native for what.
Pagestream is considered to be a Desktop Publisher(DTP) and not a word-processor.
Have added FTP and IRC. Will add others if suggested.
I am assuming AmiGift is used for torrents. Edit: Not so sure now.
Note that AmiNetRadio on MorphOS has the most format support.
Don't forget to notify via a post if you intend to edit this list.
edit: removed Blender from video editing. Cut and paste error.
edit: fixed page formatting issue.
edit: added FryingPan compatibility.
edit: added player apps for playing DVD.
edit: added HD-Rec for sound sampling. Assuming Samplitude is 68k only.
edit: added HD-Rec for editing audio.
edit: added Image Viewing and Photo retouching.
edit: added CTorrent for OS4.
edit: added AmiGift as 68k.Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 07:36 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 07:07 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 07:00 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:51 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:30 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:28 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:24 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:23 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:06 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 06:02 AM.
_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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mihcael
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:06:58
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Member
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Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Posts: 92
From: I come from a land ... | | |
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| @BigBentheAussie
GENRE |AmigaOS3(68k) |Amiga OS4 |MorphOS |AROS
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Word-processing |AbiWord |AbiWord | |Cinnamon Writer
Spreadsheets |Turbocalc |Gnumeric | |Ignition
Presentations |Hollywood* |PointRider,Hollywood*|Hollywood* |Hollywood*
Browsing | |OWB,IBrowse |OWB,IBrowse |OWB
E-mailing | | |SimpleMail |Yam
Instant Messaging | | |PolynetNG |
Databases | | |MUIBase |SDB
Text Editing | | |MorphOS Ed |NoWinED
C/C++ IDE |Cubic IDE* | |Cubic IDE* |Murks ?
Painting |TVPaint*,PPaint* | | |LunaPaint
Printing | | | |
3D Rendering |CINEMA 4D |Blender |Blender |
File Management |DOpus | |DOpus |DOpus
Playing Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Tunenet |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |Mplayer
Playing Video | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Streaming Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |
Streaming Video | | | |
Playing DVD | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Editing Audio |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
Editing Video | | | |
Music Creation |Digibooster |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
Sound Sampling |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
CD/DVD burn/rip |FryingPan |FryingPan |FryingPan,MakeCD |FryingPan
Torrents | | |MLDonkey, Beehive |
Youtube | | |OWB, getvideo |
PDF Viewing |APDF |AmiPDF |APDF |ArosPDF
DTP |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |?
FTP | | | |MarranoFTP
IRC |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat
Image viewing | | |ShowGirls |LookHere
Photo retouching | | |ShowGirls |
| | | |
Added a few AROS apps |
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KimmoK
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:25:28
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Elite Member
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Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| @thread
This thread starts to look interesting. (is it allowed  )
And why is DOpus not listed as a native filemanager for AOS4?
Somehow related comment and my humble opinnion:
If I was @ the head of Hyperion, I would strongly look into new ways to look @ the financial possibilities of MOS and AROS niches. It should be possible to benefit from all variants and not just to compete with them.
Already, it seems to me that if a developer uses Hollywood, one is able to target all Amiga platforms at once (+ the rest of the computer world). Very nice.
UPDATE: some questions about that app list
- what is the purpose of that list, actually.?
(I do not want to read through the whole thread)
- should current commercial apps be listed with ** mark and ex commercially sold apps as * (example: TVPaint is free now, Cinema 4D is free now, even though they were commercial apps in the 90's)
- should currently/still developed apps have some kind of marking ?
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Feb-2010 at 07:35 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Feb-2010 at 07:27 AM.
_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:50:30
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @KimmoK
Quote:
KimmoK wrote:
@thread
This thread starts to look interesting. (is it allowed )
And why is DOpus not listed as a native filemanager for AOS4?
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Oh, I see it is ported. Will change the list.
Quote:
Somehow related comment and my humble opinnion:
If I was @ the head of Hyperion, I would strongly look into new ways to look @ the financial possibilities of MOS and AROS niches. It should be possible to benefit from all variants and not just to compete with them.
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I am under the impression that they don't even consider those platforms competition, let alone variants they should help.
Quote:
Already, it seems to me that if a developer uses Hollywood, one is able to target all Amiga platforms at once (+ the rest of the computer world). Very nice.
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The same can be said for SDL to some extent actually. Take Cinnamon writer for instance.
Quote:
UPDATE: some questions about that app list
- what is the purpose of that list, actually.?
(I do not want to read through the whole thread)
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Well, I would appreciate some insight into what the application status is in regard to these platforms. We may be surprised to discover that they cover all the same bases to some extent and in many cases are capable of running the same software. The 68k column is relevant to classic, and the new Minimig AGA and Natami projects, as well as a fallback for non native applications on next gen systems. Similar applications and features results in common ground, and it can be argued, would allow an Amiga user to ascertain how much pain there would be to switching platforms.
Quote:
- should current commercial apps be listed with ** mark and ex commercially sold apps as * (example: TVPaint is free now, Cinema 4D is free now, even though they were commercial apps in the 90's)
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Good point. I think it is better to just drop the asterisk if it is free now.
Quote:
- should currently/still developed apps have some kind of marking ?
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Good point.....but we are really after best of breed, and if they are already, they will be listed. I don't want to make the list more complex than it really needs to be for the moment as I am trying to get input._________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:56:29
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| I am editing list and correcting spacing for mihcael.
I am adding entries below, will update below the following suggestions rather than here. Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:04 AM.
_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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pavlor
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:58:06
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Elite Member
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9593
From: Unknown | | |
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| @BigBentheAussie
AbiWord is OS4 only (not for OS3). Threre is AntiWord (OS3) for viewing .doc documents as plain text.
Music Creation (OS4): RockBeat
Painting (OS4): Gimp (AmiCygnix)
E-mailing (OS4): Yam (as contribution in OS4.1u1), SimpleMail (as contribution in OS4.1u1), Sylpheed (AmiCygnix), Claws-mail (AmiCygnix)
FTP (OS4): pFTP, AmiFTP (both as contribution on OS4.1u1 CD) |
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itix
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 7:58:09
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Elite Member
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @BigBentheAussie
There is paint program shipped with MorphOS called Sketch. IBrowse is not really PPC native. Its javascript runs on the PPC but rest of application is 68k code.
You can also add AmFTP to 68k FTP clients and YAM/Simplemail are also available for 68k. For printing there is TurboPrint for MorphOS and 68k but I dont know if this is what you mean by printing.
AmiNetRadio is not really PPC native but is mixed 68k/PPC code just like IBrowse.
Edit: Ambient is a desktop but virtually everyone is using it for file management. Nobody is using old DOpus IV but some have installed Magellan instead which is again 68k. Last edited by itix on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:11 AM.
Last edited by itix on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:09 AM.
_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 8:06:17
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
| AbiWord is OS4 only (not for OS3). Threre is AntiWord (OS3) for viewing .doc documents as plain text. |
What is the status of this OS3 version of AbiWord? Is it vapour?
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/tuxcam/amiga_porting/abiword.htm_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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pavlor
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 8:13:31
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Elite Member
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9593
From: Unknown | | |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 8:16:13
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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Application Type |AmigaOS3(68k) |AmigaOS4(PPC) |MorphOS(PPC) |AROS(x86/PPC/ARM?)
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Word-processing |AbiWord |AbiWord | |Cinnamon Writer
Spreadsheets |Turbocalc,Ignition? |Gnumeric | |Ignition
Presentations |Hollywood* |PointRider,Hollywood*|Hollywood* |Hollywood*
Browsing |IBrowse |OWB,IBrowse |OWB,IBrowse |OWB
E-mailing |SimpleMail,YAM |SimpleMail,YAM, |SimpleMail,YAM |YAM
| |Sylpheed,Claws | |
Instant Messaging | | |PolynetNG |
Databases |MUIbase |MUIBase |MUIBase |SDB,MUIBase
Text Editing |NoWinED |NoWinED |MorphOS Ed,NoWinED |NoWinED
C/C++ IDE |Cubic IDE* | |Cubic IDE* |Murks ?
Painting |TVPaint,PPaint |GIMP |Sketch |LunaPaint
Printing |TurboPrint | |TurboPrint |
3D Rendering |CINEMA 4D |Blender |Blender |
File Management |DOpus,Magellan |DOpus |DOpus |DOpus
Playing Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Tunenet |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |Mplayer
Playing Video | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Streaming Audio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio |AmiNetRadio,Mplayer |
Streaming Video | | | |
Playing DVD | |DvPlayer |Mplayer |Mplayer
Editing Audio |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
Editing Video | | | |
Music Creation |Digibooster |HD-Rec,Rockbeat |HD-Rec |
Sound Sampling |Samplitude |HD-Rec |HD-Rec |
CD/DVD burn/rip |FryingPan |FryingPan |FryingPan,MakeCD |FryingPan
Torrents | |CTorrent |MLDonkey,Beehive |
Youtube | | |OWB,getvideo |
PDF Viewing |APDF |AmiPDF |APDF |ArosPDF
DTP |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |Pagestream* |?
FTP |AmFTP | | |MarranoFTP
IRC |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat |Wookiechat
Image viewing | | |ShowGirls |LookHere
Photo retouching | | |ShowGirls |
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* Commercial product.
Note: multiple lines for apps are allowed. I am trying to minimise the width.
Remember to use SMALL and PRE tags.
Edit: capitalised YAM
Edit: added itix suggestions.
Edit: re-added OS4 CTorrent... it got lost somewhere.
Edit: added NoWinED as cross-platform as per mihcael suggestion below.
Edit: slight modification of headings to denote processor. I must have OCD.
Edit: added MUIBase. It is open source and there appears to be a version available for all platforms which I assume is native.
Edit: forgot to add DOpus OS4 port as suggested earlier.
Edit: added Ignition spreadsheet for OS3. Is it vapour?Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 09:27 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 09:22 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 09:19 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 09:02 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:50 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:48 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:27 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:20 AM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 22-Feb-2010 at 08:17 AM.
_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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BigBentheAussie
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 8:28:18
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Super Member
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @itix
I don't know what I mean by printing either. I just know this is a concern for Amiga&alike OSes. Turboprint is a library I guess. I recall there was something called CUPS as well. Can anyone comment on this.
I don't know how to approach AmiNetRadio. There are separate downloads so I assumed them native. _________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment." |
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mihcael
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Re: Why can't AROS catch on?
Posted on 22-Feb-2010 8:43:05
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Member
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Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Posts: 92
From: I come from a land ... | | |
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| @BigBentheAussie
NoWinED exists for all the platforms, i should of filled them in too. |
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9 crawler(s) on-line.
141 guest(s) on-line.
2 member(s) on-line.
