Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5703 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 21 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Trekiej:  16 mins ago
 Karlos:  46 mins ago
 newlight:  1 hr 36 mins ago
 Allanon:  1 hr 52 mins ago
 Brian:  1 hr 57 mins ago
 SnkBitten:  2 hrs 13 mins ago
 sTix:  2 hrs 25 mins ago
 nikosidis:  2 hrs 51 mins ago
 -Sam-:  3 hrs 10 mins ago
 cip060:  3 hrs 16 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 17:49:09
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8637
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
I find it still lacking and inaccurate.


Then name your concerns. I think it is one of the best sourced Amiga related articles on Wikipedia. Anyone can edit Wikipedia, so you may correct errors yourself (or post needed changes here and I will do what I can).

Quote:
sock puppets?


Well, it was rather amusing to watch.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 18:01:13
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10134
From: In the village

@pavlor

I appreciate all the work you have done. Let's begin with an easy one:

wiki:
Quote:
The Final Update of OS4 was released in December 2006


fact:
AmigaOS 4.0 July 2007 Update

If you want to call it "OS4 Final" ok.
But the moment you call it an update, it's an error.

I suspect the error was made by referring to:

The Final Update.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Nov-2017 at 06:06 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 18:26:07
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8637
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
But the moment you call it an update, it's an error.


On one of the talkpages (don´t remember if OS4 or AmigaOne) we discussed this very same misunderstanding. This OS4 version was called "The Final Update" (sure, it was not final...) - important because it was the first non-prerelease OS4 version (see previous phrase for context). Yes, it is confusing, I never liked Hyperion´s version numbers... I now rewrote this to "The Final Update of OS4.0 was released in December 2006". If you know other way than capitalization to clarify this sentence, I don´t mind.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 18:58:03
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10134
From: In the village

@pavlor

I'll have to think about that. In the meantime perhaps someone else can offer you a suggestion.

Moving along...

There seems to be a (1)known and (2)expressed end to Eyetech.
Yet you do not mention that A-Eon Technology CVBA no longer exists.
Why mention that fact about Eyetech and not about A-Eon (Belgium)?

Additionally it gets clouded in your chart where it fails to even differentiate between A-Eon Technology CVBA and A-Eon Technology Ltd and the products attributed to them.

What do you think about this?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 19:22:24
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8637
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
What do you think about this?


I rather don´t touch these issues. Is it really important for the AmigaOne article to strictly differentiate between both entities? End of Eyetech was of paramount importance for the article subject (apparent end of AmigaOne), can we say the same about A-Eon(s)?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
jorit2 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 19:37:27
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 215
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
I rather don´t touch these issues.


Interesting wording ...

Quote:

Is it really important for the AmigaOne article to strictly differentiate between both entities?


Well there is a clear distinction between the two identities.

To put it bluntly, the first one could be seen as the with-Ben era (allthough he left, in 2010, before the company dissolved, in 2013) and the second one, the post-Ben era.

And hence the paragraph title "AmigaOne by Hyperion Entertainment" is a little misleading

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 25-Nov-2017 at 08:01 PM.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 25-Nov-2017 23:02:05
#27 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2181
From: www.amigakit.com

@jorit2

Indeed, it takes a while to wind down a Belgian Corporate entity.

However A-EON Technology Ltd was involved in funding the later production runs of the X1000 before moving on to the X5000 and A1222 so the machines are definately attributed to the A-EON brand for many years since. Hyperion have had no contribution to the design, model designations or significant hardware engineering and manufacturings costs to the modern AmigaOne systems so A-EON should have its distinct section in the timeline covered by WIkipedia.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | AmigaOne X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 9:10:32
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8637
From: Unknown

@jorit2

Quote:
And hence the paragraph title "AmigaOne by Hyperion Entertainment" is a little misleading


Legal source of the post 2009 AmigaOne generation is the Hyperion-Amiga Settlement Agreement. As far as I know both A-Eon and ACube got AmigaOne license from Hyperion, so it makes sense to have related development under one section.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 9:15:30
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8637
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Quote:
so A-EON should have its distinct section in the timeline covered by WIkipedia.


As I wrote above, I would prefer current sections in the article. However, AmigaOne X5000 and A1222 (when released) could have their own articles (like the X1000). Note hardware and software products have much lower "notability" requirements than companies - article eg. about PPaint would stay without problems, but article about A-Eon/AmigaKit would be impossible to keep due to lack of "reliable sources".

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 15:27:06
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10134
From: In the village

@amigakit

Perhaps A-Eon Technology (covering both CVBA and Ltd. history) could benefit by having their own wiki?

Hyperion Entertainment has their own wiki, so this might be the only way to make your points?
Mentioning them in a forum thread has an extremely small audience and an extremely short time span of recognition.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 15:34:14
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 843
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Quote:

ndeed, it takes a while to wind down a Belgian Corporate entity.

Nah, only those involving Ben. All those time-consuming litigations...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 15:49:47
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 843
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

As far as I know both A-Eon and ACube got AmigaOne license from Hyperion, so it makes sense to have related development under one section.

No it doesn't. You either stick to mentioning the licensor as the responsible company - in that case it would be "AmigaOne by Amiga, Inc." and "AmigaOne by Hyperion" - or you you list the machines by manufacturer.

As it is, the article mentions a Belgian based A-EON, that designed and distributed the X1000 - that's just misinformation - and a British A-EON that announced three new AmigaOne motherboards in 2013 - without any explanation how these two are related. The article needs to state that one is the successor of the other, and that the reasons for closing the original company have never been explained.

It should go like this:

AmigaOne by Eyetech
AmigaOne by Acube
AmigaOne by A-EON
Unreleased models (Netbook, MicroA1-I etc.)

(Edit: Acube, not Cloanto)

Last edited by cgutjahr on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:09 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:09:11
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 843
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

And while we're at it: The article should obviously mention negative things as well - Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a fan site.

Eyetech A1:

- USB and battery problems,
- some machines delivered without onboard sound
- issues with DMA.

Sam/A1 500:

- Backplate took two (?) years to arrive
- driver issues (would have to look up the details)

X1000

- sudden price increase by 500 Euros after early bird customers had already prepaid (I think?)
- didn't deliever promised features (multicore support, modern 3D system... OS 4.2...)
- shipped with a graphics card that was never properly supported, users had to buy another one
- ethernet driver still missing

And that's just what comes to mind immediately. A good Wikipedia article on any product should cover problems like these.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:30:33
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10798
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

X1000 and 3D.

Development was ongoing first we got Warp3D SI, that was faster version of original Warp3D. And then we got Warp3D Nova that, that is complete game changer.
This things where not free, but we got this.

X1000 Ethernet and Sound

AmigaONE-X1000, was shipped, PCI Sound card and Ethernet in addition to onboard Ethernet, there never was any real problem, with lack of support for onboard Ethernet driver for AmigaOS.

We did get sound driver eventually freeing up one PCI slot.
A-EON was responsible development of drivers.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:33 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
LiveForIt-Music
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:31:26
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10134
From: In the village

@thread

By examining wiki entries concerning identical topics in wikis ranging from "Amiga" to hardware wikis themselves, there is no consistency. Here's a fine example:

Quote:
The current owner of the trademark, Amiga, Inc., licensed the rights to sell hardware using the Amiga or AmigaOne brand to Eyetech Group


OR?! Right, Eyetech was licensed to use "Amiga" as well as "AmigaOne" and therefore choose the less recognizable brand by choice. Are you kidding me?!

This is why i say A-Eon would be wise to consider telling their own story through their own wiki, since there is NO fixing the wiki errors about Amiga.

#6


_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:36:03
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 843
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

This things where not free, but we got this.

Nobody cares what you got as separate, commercial products. These things were promised as parts of the X1000's feature set, and they were not delivered. Those are facts, and Wikipedia should list facts.

I understand you feel totally good about it - but like I said: Wikipedia is not a fan site.

Quote:

AmigaONE-X1000, was shipped, with PCI Ethernet card in addition to onboard Ethernet, there never was any real problem

Ethernet drivers for onboard Ethernet were announced and not delivered for X1000 and X5000, and are apparently still missing for Tabor. That's called a pattern, and it should be included in any overview of A-EON's/Hyperion's offerings - because it hints at underlying problems.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:37:20
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10798
From: Norway

@number6

Amiga Inc owned "Amiga" name up to recently.

Hyperion and partners (Eyetech) licensed AmigaOS and AmigaONE name,
Eyetech disappeared, Hyperion had right to AmigaONE name.

ACube and A-EON was allowed to use name. (that is how I understand it)

I don't mind there is difference in computer name on PowerPC computers vs 680x0 computers, they are after all where different things, different kind of graphic card and sound card, on board chips. The only thing they have in common is that they run AmigaOS, and that is it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:44 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
LiveForIt-Music
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:43:33
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10798
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

I just feel it's made out be bigger problem than it is, sure product is shipped before things are ready that’s just how it in small market, you product hardware and have in storage forever.

Sadly drivers are hard to write it takes time, real pain to debug, when you might need reboot computer flush as crashed driver, and you need good documentation and good developers to do it.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
LiveForIt-Music
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:48:49
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 843
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Amiga Inc owned "Amiga" name up to recently.

number6 was reffering to the misinformation that Amiga had licensed the "Amiga" brand to Eyetech - they didnt do that, Eyetech only had an "AmigaOne" license.

Quote:

I just feel it's made out be bigger problem than it is

Again, Wikipedia is about facts, not your (or my) feelings. I wasn't bashing the A1 (not today ;)) I was simply listing mere facts that should be part of any description of the machines.

Excluding facts from an Encyclopedia because you feel "it's not a big problem" is not the way to go.

(Edit: bah, "AmigaOne" license, not "Amiga")

Last edited by cgutjahr on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by cgutjahr on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:50 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
jorit2 
Re: AmigaOne articles on Wikipedia vandalised
Posted on 26-Nov-2017 16:50:57
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 215
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Sadly drivers are hard to write it takes time, real pain to debug, when you might need reboot computer flush as crashed driver, and you need good documentation and good developers to do it.


That may all be true, but for an encyclopedia all that doesn't matter. In the example being discussed here, fact remains, that the drivers are not there
If I, as an outsider, would like to investigate whether it is a good idea to buy an AmigaOne, a Wikipedia article would be a good place to start. And drivers not being available, well, that's something I would like to know, and expect to find on Wikipedia.
I could still go to fansites later to find out why they are not available.

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 26-Nov-2017 at 05:00 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 26-Nov-2017 at 04:58 PM.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle