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TorbenLarsen 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 12:37:06
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2010
Posts: 111
From: The World

@Daytona675x

Super great :) When ever you have something to show or feel I need to test just email my way. I have a htc desire to give it a spin ;)

Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 12:38 PM.
Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 12:38 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 12:42:38
#22 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@TorbenLarsen

Did you use shaders on glsl in your game ? If no, and you use sdl+opengl (for example) then even current realisation of opengl will be enough for such 2d game (i can help with port if you bother)

@Daytona

Quote:

Lack of decent OpenGL support.


Is that game want shaders / glsl and stuff ?

Last edited by kas1e on 25-Dec-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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ruben 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 13:05:11
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@kas1e

I did get an opengl+sdl game running on OS4 at one time, performance was an issue though, way below than my 1.6Ghz+Intel GMA windows laptop at the time, but it did work.

Would you say that the OpenGL status on AROS is better than OS4 at this point? Must try it out one of these days...

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klx300r 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 13:14:59
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3549
From: Toronto, Canada

@TorbenLarsen

ah one of my fav shooters any chance you can make a WebOS port ?

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TorbenLarsen 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 15:09:39
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2010
Posts: 111
From: The World

@kas1e
Quote:
Did you use shaders on glsl in your game ? If no, and you use sdl+opengl (for example) then even current realisation of opengl will be enough for such 2d game (i can help with port if you bother)

It is basic openGL with some transparency settings involved centered around 2D plotting, which should make it reasonable portable to other systems, although it is always easier said than done :)

Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 03:11 PM.

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TorbenLarsen 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 15:42:24
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2010
Posts: 111
From: The World

@klx300r
thanks :)
Quote:
ah one of my fav shooters any chance you can make a WebOS port ?

hmm, not sure, but since the "nut" about conversions has been hatched why not! If is seems reasonable and realistic.
If you can elaborate on WebOS and give us the goodies about that system etc, please :)

Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 03:44 PM.
Last edited by TorbenLarsen on 25-Dec-2011 at 03:42 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 16:23:32
#27 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@ruben
Quote:

I did get an opengl+sdl game running on OS4 at one time, performance was an issue though, way below than my 1.6Ghz+Intel GMA windows laptop at the time, but it did work.


Depends of as game code done of course. If done good, then even plain SDL game will works fine and fast on slow cpus, if done bad (or just done without worring about optimisation) then will slow.

But aniway, but test comprassion with opengl realisation on morphos, aos4 one are slower about 30-50%. I.e. if you have 30 fps in some game on aos4, then on morphos (on the same hardware you will have about 50).

Quote:

Would you say that the OpenGL status on AROS is better than OS4 at this point? Must try it out one of these days...


Right now - yes. Right now aros have gallium with mesa, what mean that they have shaders, all the other opengl modern stuff, all the functions of opengl are implemnted. Through, speed wise its discussable if gallium/mesa combo are fast enough.

@TorbenLarsen
Quote:

It is basic openGL with some transparency settings involved centered around 2D plotting, which should make it reasonable portable to other systems, although it is always easier said than done :)


What language you use ? C, C++ or Object C ? And what you use for sounds ? SDL_mixer ? OpenAL or what ? And how you handle window/input events , via SDL, or via GLUT or kind ? Did you code worry about endianes ?

All in all, if you _really_ in interest, i can try to port it.

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 19:06:33
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@kas1e
Quote:
Lack of decent OpenGL support.

Is that game want shaders / glsl and stuff ?

Actually my comment wasn't regarding this particular game (which uses fix-function OpenGL ES 1) but regarding porting current games in general.
A computer without at least basic shader support or incomplete OpenGL support is just not suited as target platform for more recent games, sad but true.

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 19:07:37
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@TorbenLarsen
Quote:
Super great :) When ever you have something to show or feel I need to test just email my way. I have a htc desire to give it a spin ;)

Of course :) I have a HTC Desire myself though... :P

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TorbenLarsen 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 10:54:24
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2010
Posts: 111
From: The World

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:
@ruben
Quote:

I did get an opengl+sdl game running on OS4 at one time, performance was an issue though, way below than my 1.6Ghz+Intel GMA windows laptop at the time, but it did work.


Depends of as game code done of course. If done good, then even plain SDL game will works fine and fast on slow cpus, if done bad (or just done without worring about optimisation) then will slow.

But aniway, but test comprassion with opengl realisation on morphos, aos4 one are slower about 30-50%. I.e. if you have 30 fps in some game on aos4, then on morphos (on the same hardware you will have about 50).

Quote:

Would you say that the OpenGL status on AROS is better than OS4 at this point? Must try it out one of these days...


Right now - yes. Right now aros have gallium with mesa, what mean that they have shaders, all the other opengl modern stuff, all the functions of opengl are implemnted. Through, speed wise its discussable if gallium/mesa combo are fast enough.

@TorbenLarsen
Quote:

It is basic openGL with some transparency settings involved centered around 2D plotting, which should make it reasonable portable to other systems, although it is always easier said than done :)


What language you use ? C, C++ or Object C ? And what you use for sounds ? SDL_mixer ? OpenAL or what ? And how you handle window/input events , via SDL, or via GLUT or kind ? Did you code worry about endianes ?

All in all, if you _really_ in interest, i can try to port it.

thanks :)
If one were to consider an Amiga iOS4 port, which previously had been seriously talked about. The main project itself back then was at a too early stage and therefore not mature enough.
The code has been line by line ported from 68000 to c/c++ using basic 2D openGL for graphics handling and openAL with wav and mp3 sound files.

Then the question would be! What realistic port-scenarios can one expect with iOS4?
What computers uses iOS4?
Any licens issues (like kickstart) using iOS4?
Game accessibility?
Control mechanics (the game today is heavy on touch)?
Other issues?

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kas1e 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 11:18:13
#31 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@TorbenLarsen

Sorry, can't understand what you trying to say about iAOS4 (did you mean port some "i" engine to OS4?), but all what i trying to say, is that if your game are plain OpenGL/OpenAL and its all done on C/C++, i can try to port your game to AOS4/AROS/Morphos.

But prepare, that you will not take a lot of money from that ports. Few hundreds $ in best scenario.

So, if you in interest, write me plz at kas1e@yandex.ru

Last edited by kas1e on 26-Dec-2011 at 11:22 AM.

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4-5-6 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 13:32:50
#32 ]
Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2009
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

It should be noted that kas1e has quite a bit of experience with ports, so if you feel comfortable with a third party taking on the task, he is a good choice

(since he's not tooting his own horn, I figured I'd better do it)

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 22:25:27
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@kas1e
Okay, here you go. Note: the game was not programmed with portability in mind.

Quote:
What language you use ? C, C++ or Object C ?

All of them, mixed. For the Android port I'm currently getting rid of the system-independant Objective-C stuff. Maybe some ARM assembler will be added too.

Quote:
And what you use for sounds ? SDL_mixer ? OpenAL or what ?

OpenAL is it on the iPad, OpenSL it is on Android. For music the std. APIs of the respective devices are used. I am currently adding a device independant layer myself.

Quote:
And how you handle window/input events , via SDL, or via GLUT or kind ?

No SDL or GLUT or anything. It's hardwired Cocoa on iOS and it will be the native Java interfaces on Android. And a proprietary layer in between.

Quote:
Did you code worry about endianes ?

No. Can't tell you if that would be a big issue, since I didn't check the source for potential problems, since all target devices are little endian so far. I suppose there's not much of a problem here.

I actually don't really get why you want an AmigaOS4 port of a port of an original Amiga game you can already play on AOS4 if you start it via emulation?!?!

You gain exactly nothing by that. The game plays and looks practically 100% identical. You'd just port a bunch of problems. For example: the current iOS version relies on fast texture updates. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if that's some kind of a problem on AOS4.
Not to mention that the control system and two player mode are now done for touch-screen-controls...

Last edited by Daytona675x on 26-Dec-2011 at 10:30 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 9:03:43
#34 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@Daytona675x

Right, sounds pretty hard to port now. Expectually all that hardwired Cocoa and stuff.

Quote:

I actually don't really get why you want an AmigaOS4 port of a port of an original Amiga game you can already play on AOS4 if you start it via emulation?!?!


More native games is better, and not only for aos4, but also for morphos and aros. But after your answer its clear that it not worth of worring in end ..

Last edited by kas1e on 27-Dec-2011 at 09:05 AM.

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Jupp3 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 12:02:57
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1224
From: Unknown

@TorbenLarsen

Quote:
It is basic openGL with some transparency settings involved centered around 2D plotting, which should make it reasonable portable to other systems, although it is always easier said than done :)

If you are interested in porting, as a first step you can always get the relevant gl.h from the sdk, and see if the game still compiles with your "normal" GL header replaced by that one. If not, it's probably missing some function.

Currently:
AROS's OpenGL support is based on Gallium3D, which while not the fastest, is very complete.
OS4's OpenGL support is based on minigl. Very incomplete, but this will be replaced with a new, different implementation in the future (no idea when). New system will also support Gallium3D.
MorphOS's OpenGL support is based on tinygl, and while far from "full implementation", is probably the fastest of all 3.

All support hardware acceleration (on gfx cards with 3D drivers), I think only AROS has software rendering.

I think currently AROS has the most complete OpenGL implementation, while MorphOS has the fastest. Here's some overview of some features (I might be wrong on some things, feel free to correct)

GLSL: Missing from all except AROS
Immediate mode: Supported in all (irrelevant, since OpenGL ES lacks it, and should be avoided at all costs anyway)
Display lists: AROS and MorphOS definitely have it, I think it was also added to minigl (what OS4 uses) at some point.
Vertex arrays: Supported by all (I guess?)
VBO: Supported by AROS (support maybe coming to MorphOS 3.0)

Basically more or less OpenGL ES1.

The problem with OpenGL is that there are so many different ways to do some thing, and often, (at least) one is missing from our "lesser" implementations. Of course this is less of a problem with OpenGL ES, as it's "restricted set of full OpenGL" to begin with.

Personally, I consider VBO to be the most important (as it can add huge speedup, and should be relatively simple to do, compared to f.ex. GLSL) - for now, it's only a matter of few #ifdef's to make the code use VA instead (been there, done that...)

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ruben 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 12:46:25
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@Daytona675x

Quote:
I actually don't really get why you want an AmigaOS4 port of a port of an original Amiga game you can already play on AOS4 if you start it via emulation?!?!


I'll be pedantic, but you'd still need to have a copy of the original Battle Squadron game, otherwise it's piracy.

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 15:15:13
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@kas1e
Quote:
Right, sounds pretty hard to port now. Expectually all that hardwired Cocoa and stuff.

When I'm done with the preparations for the Android port then the code will be rather easy to port, since all device-dependant stuff will be well seperated. But nevertheless:

Quote:
More native games is better, and not only for aos4, but also for morphos and aros. But after your answer its clear that it not worth of worring in end ..

Without doubt, of course the more the better. But in this particular case I don't see a benefit, since it's nothing new for the Amiga platform.

Last edited by Daytona675x on 27-Dec-2011 at 03:26 PM.

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 15:18:30
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@ruben
Quote:
I'll be pedantic, but you'd still need to have a copy of the original Battle Squadron game, otherwise it's piracy.

Why pedantic? It IS piracy if you don't own the original.

As it is with everything else. Just as it would be if you'd download a crack of a re-ported AOS4 version of the game.
Don't know what this has to do with using the original version?!

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ruben 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 18:04:50
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@Daytona675x

Quote:
Don't know what this has to do with using the original version?!

A new, commercially supported OS4 version could make it easier to get for people who don't own the original game. Other than that, sure, no point in an OS4 port, if it's the same game.

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Daytona675x 
Re: The first 2-player split-screen shoot'em up (Amiga) on App Store
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 18:08:40
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@ruben
Quote:
A new, commercially supported OS4 version could make it easier to get for people who don't own the original game.

I guess it would be less of a hazzle for all interested players and Cope-Com then if they'd just sell the original's ADF

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