@jingof
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jingof wrote: Perception is often reality. Particularly when "picking the right tools" requires knowledge not yet attained.

Acquiring that knowledge just requires asking though. Lots of kids know how to use Google, all they'd need to do is search for 'easy game maker', or search for game development forums and ask in there, or even just ask their parent who could help finding something for them to start with.

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Quote: This is another common misconception, that kids won't be interested in making things that don't end up being a professional-level product By what standard do you judge this a misconception? I've heard this rationale for disinterest stated several times, among teens. So, why you judge this misconception is a mystery to me.

Some kids, even back in the day, had unrealistic expectations of what their game must be before they start. However, the kids that enjoy being creative will just go ahead and start. I remember a friend of mine from school made what was basically a text adventure with little to no programming knowledge, and this was back in the mid 90s when text adventures were seen as old hat. The point is, the kids with the right attitude don't let their lack of technical know-how stop them from creating something. Even if some kids do want to have that polished final product, there's nothing stopping them from getting involved in creating game content through game mods.

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Consoles and home computers (particularly in the 80's) were not "apples and oranges". The distinction is mostly marketing and only slightly technical. This is exactly why the Coleco Adam was originally launched as a console and a year later, a keyboard and software was released to turn in into a home computer. There were other consoles that did this as well. The IntelliVision, for example, as I recall, also had a home computer expansion option. A console is a subset of a home computer. So, they are more related then your apples/oranges comparison would have one conclude.

Consoles can be transformed into general purpose home computers, but the difference between them is more than 'mostly marketing'. A console is a device focused on gaming, all the hardware and primary peripherals are geared towards gaming. I think you do the C64 a great disservice to describe it as a console, games were only one aspect of what people used it for.

@Franko
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Franko wrote: Why do people when it comes to computers have to stick the label "geeks" onto others !!!

In this case, geek is a shorthand way to refer to a computer enthusiast. It is not intended as a derogatory term, many people (myself included) are proud to be thought of as geeks. The term geek can apply outside the computing realm too, but the one thing that unites all geeks is a passion for knowledge about their chosen subject. If you don't have the drive to be knowledgable then you aren't a geek. Hope this clears up why this word is used.

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As for noobs, course everyones a noob at some point in time in everything we set out to do and no-one has said those who actually built computers in their homes from scratch didn't frown or look down upon those of us who bought ready made ones, so what your point is there I have no idea...

The 'people who built their own computers' does not sum up the 'old guard' I was referring to, what I was referring to were the users of mainframes and other similar systems. They had enjoyed levels of sophistication in their computer systems that the home computers of the day were not geared up to support, and had a better level of computing know-how than the the people brought in by the microcomputer, certainly at first. My point is, it's easy to look down on others, but why not share your knowledge instead, build people up rather than shooting them down.

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The big difference between a car and computer is, to take an interest in a computer I only have to switch it on and start programming at the keyboard to get it to do something unlike a car where I would have to go outside, jack it up, climb underneath and all over it and require more tools and spare parts, get covered in oil and gunk just to find out what's wrong with it.

Not at all. You can read about how things work without needing to see the real hardware. I could learn about how atomic bombs work without needing to see one. The issue is, if the desire to learn isn't there, then you won't bother.

@HenryCase

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I think you do the C64 a great disservice to describe it as a console, games were only one aspect of what people used it for.

You're taking my original comments way too literally. I simply meant that whereas a lot of kids today are growing up spending many hours on their xbox 360, we grew up spending a lot of time on our C-64. That the place it occupied in our minds and bedrooms were similar, as the dominant platform of their day. I never meant that the C-64 was literally a games console. I know well what it was, and I know well the difference. Hell, I should. I have a Masters Degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering, have been working in the field for 25 years, have designed the internals of Microprocessors and decades of software experience. So, I don't actually need a lesson in the difference between a games console and a home computer.

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@HenryCase

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The 'people who built their own computers' does not sum up the 'old guard' I was referring to, what I was referring to were the users of mainframes and other similar systems.

Yes they do sum up the "old gaurd"... the few who had access to mainframe computers were not "home computer users" (unless they were absurdly wealthy and had a very big extension on their palace)...

This is about home computing not the few who had access to a mainframe. Having worked for Ferranti Cetec Graphics back in the day where there were only mainframes that used up entire buildings, I can assure you very few of the programmers/ developers & engineers looked down their noses at home computer users and were in fact some of the first to become home computer users. They were in most cases amazed and blown away that a little Z80 could in some tasks outperform a multi million pound mainframe they had spent years building, developing & programming ...

While I may not have realised it at the time as I was only 16/17 back then my time at Ferranti was probably where I caught the computer bug and led to me buying the Vic 20 on it's launch but as to why you think others look down their noses at people I have no idea, as that was not the experience I had from the people you are talking about...


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Not at all. You can read about how things work without needing to see the real hardware. I could learn about how atomic bombs work without needing to see one. The issue is, if the desire to learn isn't there, then you won't bother.

Of course you can do that, I do it myself all the time but the point here is hardly any youngsters even bother to do that these days let alone put any of it into practise when it comes to home computing...

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