@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko Just because you were not privy to what was going on in the past, some of us were.

You really are pathetic mate and your ego is getting in the way of you being able to see reality...

If all you want to do here is make pathetic attempts at being a smart arse then carry on by all means as with each post your just showing yourself to be more and more ignorant...

I suggest before making any more such dumb statements you stop and think for a minute how dumb it is to make such comments when you haven't a clue what I've done in my 26 years of using the Amiga...

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@Franko

my 2 cents...

I think both sides speak of different topics. If you program commercially (or at least want to reach many users) you need crossplatform tools and I only know of 3 different choices (PortablE, Hollywood and C) with C the most flexible choice. As long as you only develope for 68k and are not interested to run it native outside UAE you can use assembler as often as you like. Most libraries and many programs run on Aros 68k without any changes. If you conly want to support X86 you have other choices. Assembler was used to save resources (that was very limited) but today memory and processor-speed are no real issue (even on emulation). That is of course different if you program it for classic hardware mainly.

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko Sorry if you perceive me as boasting, I do not believe I did but thanks for twisting it, I just want to defend a great programming tool. I never have considered myself a real coder, anybody will tell you that, I know real coders and have worked with them for many years and have utmost respect for them, my point is that Assembler has it place but not for 98% of development and C is not that bloated. Lets move on with this now shall we.

Your one strange guy...

One minute your telling me that you wrote something in assembler and that you doubt I could do the same...

Next minute your telling me you don't even consider yourself to be a programmer and let's all move on because it doesn't suit you anymore when some replies back pointing out the flaws in your statements...

I don't get you or what your trying to prove here...

But yeah, lets move on as debating with someone who changes his story every few minutes is kinda pointless...

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@Franko

calm down all please...

I work on Aros 68k a lot so I can judge it a little...

Many 68k applications and games work out of the box on my distribution so it has alot to do with "Amiga". It implements the same APIs, it has the same directories...

I think Franko is not interested in developing cross-platform so it is the wrong discussion

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Franko calm down all please...

I'm always calm...

Quote:

I work on Aros 68k a lot so I can judge it a little... Many 68k applications and games work out of the box on my distribution so it has alot to do with "Amiga". It implements the same APIs, it has the same directories...

That's the kinda thing I wanted to know about when it comes to AROS...

Quote:

I think Franko is not interested in developing cross-platform so it is the wrong discussion

100% true, coding for me only involves doing so for my classic hardware but I am interested in reading about other ways people do things Amiga...

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@clusteruk

"C is not that bloated".

That obviously depends on what you compare it with and the circumstances under which it operates.

I do AVR at work, and a classical one is how C enters an interrupt handler:
push R16
push R0
mv R0,SR
push R0
clr R16

And then the reverse set of pop/mv on exit. And that's an interrupt handler that doesn't as of yet clobber any registers or even change any bits in the status register! I have an interrupt handler written in assembly that clears a variable (I locked a register for it) and exits like this:
push R16
ldi R16,#0
mv R3, R16
pop R16
reti

(ldi and mv don't touch the status registers, unfortunately ldi can only work on the upper 16 registers, which are also the ones you can combine into 16 bit registers.)

Compare with C's best effort:
push __zero_reg__
push r0
in r0,__SREG__
push r0
clr __zero_reg__
/* prologue: Signal */
/* frame size = 0 */
clr r3
/* epilogue start */
pop r0
out __SREG__,r0
pop r0
pop __zero_reg__
reti


Other times a C compiler will recognize that you're using more or less the same data going into multiple hardware registers or memory locations, and conveniently optimize away a load or two. Whereas the assembler will quite happily take all your loads and stores as they were written, because you told it to. Rewriting the hand-optimized assembly each time you change a register value is tedious, whereas the C compiler will do the optimization every time you compile.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Franko

Quote:

One minute your telling me that you wrote something in assembler and that you doubt I could do the same...

What the hell are you talking about . . .

I have not programmed in Assembler, except experimenting on spectrum, and show me where I said that and where I said you could not.

You are right lets move on, but of course you will want the last word so go ahead.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko but of course you will want the last word so go ahead.

No ta...

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@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko Quote: One minute your telling me that you wrote something in assembler and that you doubt I could do the same... What the hell are you talking about . . .

Ah... short term memory problems I see...

Post number 34 written by "Clusteruk"...

Quote:

Finally I would like to see how long it would take you to write a document management system like the one I wrote in Assembler if it was possible at all which I doubt.

Quote:

I have not programmed in Assembler, except experimenting on spectrum, and show me where I said that and where I said you could not.

So erm... which is it !!!

Trouble with your memory or one of the above statements you made is false...

Quote:

but of course you will want the last word so go ahead.

Changed my mind and didn't want to disappoint you, at least this way you got something right in this thread...

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@Franko

Quote:

Finally I would like to see how long it would take you to write a document management system like the one I wrote in Assembler if it was possible at all which I doubt.

Let me rewrite this to be clear, a comma after the word "wrote" may have helped.

I wrote this in C#.net, how much longer would it have taken to write in Assembler if possible due to the need for .net framework, access to sql. Please reread it and you can see that is what I meant but I can see how it can be misunderstood.

Instead of instantly looking for the bad in what I and others write, accept this, I have not once tried to insult you or your skills as an assembly programmer or said I am better. I just think Assembly is not the best way to code these days except for fun and C is good but you dismiss it totally.

May I suggest in future you enquire to the meaning if unclear or seems to be attacking you rather than going all out to attack me which is both amusing and pointless.

Also the comment about me having access to information about Amiga development which you may not have been privy too is true. But you did not enquire what or how, you just again attacked it and accused me of, whatever you accused me of.

Any way, I have my Pi now, and I am about to post a video.

Many thanks

Ask any developers in Aros community how much respect I show them and you will see I am not what you seem to think I am, however, I will not lose sleep over this.

Last edited by clusteruk on 31-May-2012 at 04:35 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Franko Quote: Finally I would like to see how long it would take you to write a document management system like the one I wrote in Assembler if it was possible at all which I doubt. Let me rewrite this to be clear, a comma after the word "wrote" may have helped. I wrote this in C#.net, how much longer would it have taken to write in Assembler if possible due to the need for .net framework, access to sql. Please reread it and you can see that is what I meant but I can see how it can be misunderstood.

Sorry, but no matter how you try to explain it that sentence of yours I quoted clearly states that you wrote your document management system in assembler...

I you worded it wrong then I'm not psychic with the ability to peer into your mind and realise you meant something totally different, I can only go by what you typed and it clearly states you coded it in assembler...

If it can be written in C then it can be written in assembler, nothing hard to understand about that...

Quote:

Instead of instantly looking for the bad in what I and others write, accept this, I have not once tried to insult you or your skills as an assembly programmer or said I am better. I just think Assembly is not the best way to code these days except for fun and C is good but you dismiss it totally.

I never said you instantly look for the bad in things and it's not something I do either...

If something is nonsense or rubbish to me I say so, no point in telling someone something is good when it's not just to be nice. If you do that they will go on continuing doing things that are not very good because no one bothered to tell them it wasn't....

Quote:

May I suggest in future you enquire to the meaning if unclear or seems to be attacking you rather than going all out to attack me which is both amusing and pointless.

As I said it was very clear to me what you wrote, there was nothing in that sentence that made me think you had made a mistake or were trying to say something else, like I said I'm not Uri Geller...

Quote:

Also the comment about me having access to information about Amiga development which you may not have been privy too is true. But you did not enquire what or how, you just again attacked it and accused me of, whatever you accused me of.

I have read posts before by you that say you have been privy to certain stuff and I'm not claiming it's untrue. All I'm saying is just because you have been privy to certain information doesn't somehow make you an expert over others when it come to the Amiga...

What's with all this delicate little flower stuff on the internet with some people !!!

I didn't attack you on anything, if you take the comments and opinions of someone you don't even know as an "attack" then to me that's just crazy. They are only comments and personal opinions after all not a personal attack or anything important, just differences of opinions on what is after all a not very important subject in the grand scheme of things ie: 20 odd year old computers...

Quote:

Ask any developers in Aros community how much respect I show them and you will see I am not what you seem to think I am, however, I will not lose sleep over this.

Erm... why...

If you have respect for some developers that's not really anything to do with me...

Myself, I only give respect to people I know personally and am able to judge them on whether they deserve my respect or not, just as they do me...

When it comes to respect for others I don't know then I reserve that respect for those doing jobs that truly deserve the meaning of that word like Doctors, Nurses, Police, Firemen, etc... and not developers and programmers whom I may admire or be impressed by their work but respect just doesn't even come into it...

_________________

@clusteruk

Quote:

Ask any developers in Aros community how much respect I show them and you will see I am not what you seem to think I am, however, I will not lose sleep over this.

You are in a no win scenario with him, just walk away.

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

Taxi . . . .

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @clusteruk Quote: Ask any developers in Aros community how much respect I show them and you will see I am not what you seem to think I am, however, I will not lose sleep over this. You are in a no win scenario with him, just walk away.

It's not about winning or losing (you'd know about that)...

PS: I thought you was dead...

_________________

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @damocles Taxi . . . .

Not arguing but I prefer buses myself or walking (keeps you fit)...

_________________

@ The Modern World

After my last post this thought occurred to me...

When you think about it, you know all this "I want stuff to be the latest wontnot and modern" malarky then...

Buses, Cars, Taxi's... how old school is that... I mean they run around the ground on things that were invented soooo long ago that it just aint funny how old fashioned they are, I am of course referring to WHEELS...

Where the Next Gen versions, ie: hover cars that don't use those old fashioned wheel thingies to get about...


And Walking.... WALKING... gawd that's even more old hat than wheels, in this day and age you'd think they'd have come up with something better than legs by now...

Strange how despite all our "advances" some things never change... eh...

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@Franko

Quote:

Sorry, but no matter how you try to explain it that sentence of yours I quoted clearly states that you wrote your document management system in assembler...

I think this book might be useful to you:

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @Franko I think this book might be useful to you:

Nah... books are too modern for me I prefer to read stuff carved in stone...



I believe this was someone writing the very first Amiga ROM Kernel Manual...

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@Franko

"Whispers of the light breeze give a wild skin to the lake"

We knew the Amiga guys were hippies!

Chris

There's a lot of confusion flying around here.
Where my confusion lays, is how someone who claims to know asm doesnt understand these things. It's pretty straight forward. ASM is cpu specific, always has been, always will be.
As for where AROS has a connection to amiga,... err, the confusion there is just as baffling. 68k software will work on 68k AROS. How is this confusing? Anyone who uses any form of asm must understand this. Anyone who understands asm for any architecture must understand that you cant use asm from one architecture on another without the use of an emulator.
How could a person possibly think that coding for specific registers will lead to code that works on another hardware format that contains a different set of registers?
Even when dealing specifically with Commodore 68k amigass 68k code wont run on ppc either, or vice versa. Why would AROS be any different with its plethora of architectures available?

Things like lcd display panels and so on wont work using an emulator like uae either as its not low level enough.

The whole thing is smelling a little dubious to me by now.
The "confusion" is due to one of 2 things. Porkies, or the need to antagonise.

One thing I know for sure is that ClusterUK has done more than his fair share for the platform. Things I can access right now, Specific things that he (and others who know him) can name and/or buy and/or give download links to.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 31-May-2012 at 07:18 PM.