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      /  Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
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Daedalus 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 9:51:25
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@realize

Well maybe there are just two of us in the whole world who have it working reasonably well, and we used some sort of magic to get it working... Or else there are issues which only show up on certain systems or software configurations, which you and others are experiencing. Maybe you should look at that end of it, seeing as others are able to use it without major problems. Start by reading the documents and making sure all the requirements are in place, particularly the specific versions of .so files which need to be carefully looked at, and the process for upgrading a previous version (which is where I suspect your issues arise). It is beta software, and has to be mollycoddled a bit as a result.

I have had no problems running it other than its general slowness and appetite for RAM which eventually brings the machine to its knees, but it's certainly usable within those parameters.

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Signal 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 13:32:24
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@realize

Quote:

realize wrote:
@Signal
Lets see some proof of this absurd statement.


It works as I stated on my AmigaNG.

Proof? __I got your P-R-O-O-F right here.__

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Belxjander 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 17:08:39
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@Daedalus @realize @Silence

Using TimberWolf on a sam440flex myself...

The only times it errors out is if I have the machine busy during the TimberWolf loading...

otherwise it is pretty tolerant for the most part.

The only "known crash" issue for me is a single thread failure when exiting the browser,
which breaks re-running (zombie application state)

I even get to open 8-12 different tabs quite happilly as well as using some compatible plugins

So add a +1 to the "usable" count for me...which makes... 3 now?

I accept the existing quirks as part of beta-testing...

Hell... I even have the curve ball of using it to display Japanese side by side with English.

the Intuition Window title will show strange mangled labelling... but the tab and browser internal rendering will show proper UTF8 rendered Japanese without issue.

Just waiting on a keyboard I sent to S.Solie to arrive at its destination now...
Hopefully that helps in adding a couple of extra keycodes in the raw and cooked options list to support the IME functionality (I am trying to avoid hacking the OS where possible)

*yawn* enough rambling from me at 1:30am in the morning...

I have some Perception-IME and Polymorph-VMM updates to complete and push



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Tomas 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 17:36:16
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

I find it hard to believe that anyone can use timberwolf for a longer period of time without it crashing. Certain sites just makes it crash from what i recall which to me makes it unusable.
I can easily open 12 tabs as well, but some sites or actions will still crash it randomly.
Even the devs themselves admit that the situation is pretty bad right now, but yet people here seem to still be defending it and claiming it is stable....

Last edited by Tomas on 22-Aug-2013 at 05:37 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 18:14:19
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12277
From: Norway

@Tomas

Timberwolf work well for me as long as I don't close it.
And it has worked for me for hours.

Most of the time it render better then OWB, the only problem is uses extreme amount of CPU resources, but is okay on X1000, its not on the XE, I know.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Aug-2013 at 06:16 PM.

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sundown 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 22-Aug-2013 19:09:49
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@Tomas

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that anyone can use timberwolf for a longer period of time without it crashing. Certain sites just makes it crash from what i recall which to me makes it unusable.

Guess some of us just live right, I can use TW for hours without crashing. I am using RC2 because it seemed faster then RC3. TW can crash on quit as it updates some .sqlite files, if 1 gets corrupted, it will GR. A working backup is a good fix.

As far as bitching about the hard work others do, why don't you whiners learn how to code & show us how easy it is to do right for a change...

Now quit hinting those of us who did get it working right are liars...

Last edited by sundown on 22-Aug-2013 at 07:15 PM.
Last edited by sundown on 22-Aug-2013 at 07:14 PM.

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klx300r 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 23-Aug-2013 0:49:25
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3764
From: Toronto, Canada

@Tomas

TimberWolf has worked well for me since the last update as long as I keep it open all the time. Every once in a while ill get the occasional hang when I've got many screens open but haven't had a guru from TW in a while.

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

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TrevorDick 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 23-Aug-2013 7:03:10
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2677
From: Wellington

@klx300r

Timberwolf was OK for me on my AmigaONE X1000 (on SFS partition) but since I've moved it to an SSD drive (again an SFS partion) it's like a new program. Extremely fast and usable. No crashing and very reliable. The only issue now is a GR on shutting down the program, but since I leave it running all the time, I can live with that for the moment.

TrevorD

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TrevorDick 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 23-Aug-2013 7:06:06
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2677
From: Wellington

@sundown

Quote:
It can crash on quit as it updates some .sqlite files, if 1 gets corrupted, it will GR.


Is there a quick fix for this?. I seem to recall having to delete some files but can't quite remember.

TrevorD

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sundown 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 23-Aug-2013 7:40:32
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@TrevorDick

{quote]
sundown

It can crash on quit as it updates some .sqlite files, if 1 gets corrupted, it will GR.[/quote]

Quote:

TrevorDick

Is there a quick fix for this?. I seem to recall having to delete some files but can't quite remember.


I haven't tracked it down yet, first thing to look for is any file(s) in CurrentUserProfile that end in "corrupt". One thing I've done is to get a working CurrentUserProfile dir install & make a backup of just that dir, if it starts GR'ing on quit, I can just copy over files from it to get it stable again. TW is a strange beast, I've had to delete the contents of CurrentUserProfile a few times to get it not to GR on quit, but once I did, I made the backup. The contents of that dir are auto created first time TW is run.

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Signal 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 23-Aug-2013 17:43:04
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@sundown

Dinking around with TW, at least on my setup, I discovered by setting TW to
'Work Offline' in the TW 'File' menu before shutdown stops the NSPR thread 4
error, and TW along with the spawned child processes exit cleanly.

Upon restart TW remembers the Work Offline setting,, but, no problemo.

You can see the child processes with Ranger under the DOS/Processes tabs.

Careful, if you want to keep Ranger active while playing around you must
click the Pause button at the bottom of the Processes panel while using TW.

If you are getting this NSPR thread 4 error, before hitting the kill button
try looking at the above mentioned location with Ranger and notice what happens
when you do click kill.

Just keep in mind that Ranger may be trying to access the same resources as
another process so just using it could cause a #%^@*-+ .

I hope others try this and mention their results. I hope it is not just one
little setting in TW that makes this test useless.

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TrevorDick 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 11:43:18
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2677
From: Wellington

@sundown

Quote:
One thing I've done is to get a working CurrentUserProfile dir install & make a backup of just that dir, if it starts GR'ing on quit, I can just copy over files from it to get it stable again.


Thanks, good idea. I will give it a try.

TrevorD

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Vistaus 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 12:56:14
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 332
From: Unknown

@TrevorDick

The problem seems to be, as far as I can tell from this thread, the CPU and RAM usage. So I wonder how your SSD could've solved the performance issue... Sure it'll launch in an instant but overall usage should be comparable.

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Hypex 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 15:19:33
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10697
From: Greensborough, Australia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
On x86, they can integrate UAE.


Given MOS puts all 68K apps into a collected sandbox may make that easier, even though it just emulates the CPU and not hardware. So UAE would complicate it.

But what about the MOS API that made to duplicate the Amiga 68K API and exists for bug endian. How do you get past those system structures that are rooted in a big endian CPU?

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Hypex 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 15:30:00
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10697
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Daedalus

Quote:
Yes, this is true, but 256 colours or increased palettes were far from standard until well into the '90s.


Perhaps yes, but the Amiga only had a base palette of 32 colours until AGA, to which the copper really made a difference to increase on screen colours.

Quote:
DOS was incredibly fast, but of course that was hardware text mode which the Amiga totally lacks, so apples and oranges.


IIRC Amiga Format had an article on how to create a text mode on the Amiga with the blitter. One could always open a borderless window full screen. But the font rendering was still slow.

Quote:
No competition, with all the grinding and swapping that Windows 3.1 had to do.


Well I wasn't going into the terrible fake window interface, just comparing conssole rendering, but even on Windows a fake console window looked fast. Even when it was emulated with a blackground window.

Quote:
Anyway, yes the Amiga chipset was already falling behind in some aspects, but because it took a totally different route to a similar result, it had advantages in other areas too, so it really depends on what you mean by "behind".


Probably what I said, mainly the palette size, and having a fast chunky mode. Or as I call it, one bitplane mode with extended pixel width.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 15:36:04
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1330
From: CRO

@Hypex

Quote:
But what about the MOS API that made to duplicate the Amiga 68K API and exists for bug endian. How do you get past those system structures that are rooted in a big endian CPU?


You don't.

Nor should you try, because it is a waste of time and resources. There's UAE, it is the most compatible solution of all, use it. Instead concentrate on core OS features that matter today and tommorow.

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Hypex 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 16:53:01
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10697
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Daedalus

Quote:
All I know is that it works reasonably well on my A1-XE, but I don't use that for browsing these days at all. No amount of optimisation is going to get Timberwolf (or OWB for that matter) working the same speed as Chromium on a dual 3GHz Linux box. So that's what I use instead.


Nor flash, or Java or unbroken Javascript. But those are things we accept. However, on OSX PPC, they face the same things. You need special software and plugins just like we do on Amiga. There are even flash plugins that open a window over the browser just like on the Amiga! So we shouldn't feel so bad. Though I thought a plugin would interface with the browser better and embed moving pictures in browser window so really I'm not that impressed for a modern OS open source browser!

I have a PC I"ve been using and I must say the X86 browsing experience isn't as good as everyone craps on about! I use FireFox and it just bugs me. First, because it's a PC it's just too damn slow. At 2Ghz it's faster than my X1000 even but it spends its time accessing the HD, even though I have a few set applications and don't install much crap on it. When it does load and I google for things I get all these ads and pop ups opening up in secret in the background wasting my connection and slowing the computer down more! Stuff that! The Amiga is so much better for browsing without flash and all those ads coming up all the time! Those pop up blockers don't work! Linux PPC is just as good, no modern crap features ruining the browsing experience. So that is the other side of the internet experience. Sometimes less is more!

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Hypex 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 17:07:33
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10697
From: Greensborough, Australia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
There's UAE, it is the most compatible solution of all, use it.


But UAE is not a MOS emulator. I'm talking about MOS system internals that involve native PPC programs as well. Bit hard to run that native if it is emulated. It would have to be rewritten and the old code thrown out. Which is expected.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 24-Aug-2013 18:02:10
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1330
From: CRO

@Hypex

recompile/port and be done with it. Much better for all, program will run faster, more stable, programmer will be able to explore all of the possibilities of the improved OS.
Afterall, I'm guessing the vast majority of native MOS software, like OWB-MUI, would lend itself to easy porting since it doesn't bang any hardware.

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redfox 
Re: Where is the TIMBERWOLF Update?
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 3:33:03
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1965
From: Canada

@realize

Recently my ISP made changes to its Webmail. Now Timberwolf is the only web browser on my system that actually works with this new version of Webmail. It is not fast but at least it updates the main browser window as expected.

My system is a MicroA1 with 256MB RAM. This is not enough RAM to use Timberwolf to its full potential, so I made some sacrifices to make it usable.

Timberwolf uses the RANDOM device for some of its processes.

For me, Timberwolf works best WITHOUT the RANDOM device.
For me, Timberwolf works best from a JXFS partition.

Due to these changes, I cannot save bookmarks, but Timberwolf does remember where I was last and it does remember some login ids and passwords.

Used Timberwolf RC3 to post this reply.

---
redfox
MicroA1-C with 750GX CPU and 256MB RAM
AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
Timberwolf RC3


Last edited by redfox on 26-Aug-2013 at 04:01 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 26-Aug-2013 at 04:00 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 26-Aug-2013 at 03:34 AM.

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