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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:31:58
#261 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

I think I can remember something of "exclusive rights" in the settlement, the wording sounded somehow strange. I read it at that time as Hyperion has the right to use 3.1. sources for their development of 4.X, Hyperion obviously thinks to exclusive control 3.1. now. Perhaps there are now two parties that have access to the sources and can do development. Only personal speculation

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amigadave 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:35:27
#262 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@tripos,

jorit2's quote below definitely places a cloud of doubt over the claims of ownership by Colanto.

Your attempts at legal logic are childlike and naive.

Quote:

jorit2 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Since you seem to share the assumption that the Settlement Agreement is complete and correct ... you also go along with the assumption, as stated in the Settlement Agreement that Amiga was the owner at the time.

In other words, with the settlement agreement as a reference, Cloanto must have acquired the rights they claim, from Amiga Inc.

You may want to look at the Settlement Agreement again, it states kinda unequivocally the terms under which a sale of assets by Amiga (including the Collateral) can occur. It doesn't leave too much room for interpretation.

Evert


Personally, I would rather see Colanto in control of AmigaOS3.x development and sales, so I hope their claims are valid.

Last edited by amigadave on 04-May-2015 at 10:39 PM.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:36:53
#263 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

Well 25 000 $ license is mentioned , unless it was license
plate for Nascar plate on the car

If they got license from Cloanto why are they removing games
now faster then you can say Impassamole ?

Maybe that 25 000 $ never was meant for Cloanto or Cloanto
never got any money so he destroyed Writ Media Group.

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:44:28
#264 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

There were two parties with exclusive perpetual
world-wide rights to "Amiga OS" sources but Hyperion
got those rights for the purpose of continued development
of his OS as AmigaOS.
Amiga Inc. retained those rights for the purpose of using them
in AmigaAnywhere and AmigaDE or what not.Court didn't recognize
those as OSes but emulation layers.

Clearer ?

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:53:49
#265 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

I get your point I do. I already did.

I'm just not sure I agree with everything you say.

I do start with the settlement agreement, which is, as you will understand, a reasonable point for me, especially for me, to start from.
My entire post was really simply a post "what would the situation have to be, taking the settlement agreement at face value", i even edited my original post in this discussion a couple o' hours ago, to emphasize that simple premise even more.

The scope of my initial post didn't include the discussion whether Cloanto would be bound by the agreement, or affected.

You seem to think they're not bound, not even affected, since they're not a party. Fair enough, I understand the point you're making, but I disagree.

Since the settlement agreement is a Court Stipulated Judgment, it has power of law. It's not just another agreement.

Moreover, it does explicitly mention remedies available to Hyperion if the Collateral (and it is called Collateral for a reason) is not sold according to the terms mentioned in the settlement agreement.
I guess it is needless to say that Cloanto would be affected by those remedies, in one way or another. Again, this agreement, including the remedies, are already approved by the Court.

You can read about the remedies yourself

Evert




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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 22:55:03
#266 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@blizz1220



No not really.

How we know from CommodoreUSA noone can use "Amiga" and install something "Amiganoid" on the computer. The interesting question (rather theoretical of course ) can somebody use sources and sell it under a different name?

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 23:01:53
#267 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Let's agree to disagree then

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 23:05:52
#268 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:

jorit2's quote below definitely places a cloud of doubt over the claims of ownership by Colanto.


Mmmm it doesn't.

We just don't seem to agree about the consequences

Evert

Edit: rephrased

Last edited by jorit2 on 04-May-2015 at 11:23 PM.

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 23:06:45
#269 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yes , you could use AROS on Amiga branded hardware
as long there is no 0.7-3.9 piece of code in there and since
you made it yourselves and for different CPU architecture.

It can even more so oh so more so be used with Commodore
branded hardware.You still might need a lawyer to point those
things out to someone who may think otherwise though.

As for other question it's vague and me go to sleep

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 4-May-2015 23:10:35
#270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

me too... enough speculated for today

good night

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 3:44:10
#271 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@hyperionmp

Quote:
But we value compatibility.

Strangely enough, so does our userbase and the userbase of the clones.


Apple also valued compatibility. So did the Mac user base.

In 2005.

Then an edict was decreed from upon high that moving forward, a new architecture would be used -- one that would share its foundation with the vast majority of computing devices and allow its users to purchase high performance, multipurpose systems at reasonable prices.

And despite much trepidation, software megaliths, basement hacks and legions of users genuflected in the name of progress. Antiquated and unsupported solutions were relegated to the dustbin and the past became known as nostalgia.

The Amiga doesn't have a compatibility problem - there is no shortage of options for keeping things just the way they've always been.

The Amiga has a capability problem.

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amigadave 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 8:34:50
#272 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@jorit2

Quote:

jorit2 wrote:
@amigadave

Quote:

jorit2's quote below definitely places a cloud of doubt over the claims of ownership by Colanto.


Mmmm it doesn't.

We just don't seem to agree about the consequences

Evert

Edit: rephrased


I guess I don't understand what you are implying, or trying to state in your replies to tripos. I thought that you were implying that perhaps Colanto had obtained from Amiga Inc., some of their rights of ownership of AmigaOS3.1, in violation of the settlement agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc., which would result in some of those ownership rights being contestable, should Hyperion wish to pursue the matter in court. In my eyes, that would cloud some of the claims of Colanto's ownership, but I must be misinterpreting some or all of what you had posted.

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 9:35:39
#273 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@amigadave

What I read there is that Amiga Inc. licensed or S.O.L.D
even right to develop AmigaAnywhere and it's own emulation
by granting those rights (for monetary refund) to Cloanto.

At this point Hyperion's rights are not harmed (but we'll see
what will happen next).It was legal move that went through
settlement agreement (Bill had to warn Cloanto whom was
already warned by lawyer etc.).

If they didn't do it "by the book" their sale is already in danger
but I doubt that would happen ...

Last edited by blizz1220 on 05-May-2015 at 09:37 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 9:46:08
#274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

I do not understand. Whose sale is in danger? That of Cloanto?

BTW they (Hyperion) would shoot themselves in their own feets by alienating the whole 68k community and would indirectly support Aros 68k. I cannot imagine that this is their goal .

It would be the beginning of the biggest shitstorm ever in our community, it would not be a very wise decision.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 05-May-2015 at 10:03 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 05-May-2015 at 09:54 AM.

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Pleng 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 10:16:35
#275 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 458
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:

Apple also valued compatibility...

a new architecture would be used -- one that would ...allow its users to purchase high performance, multipurpose systems at reasonable prices.


So what went wrong..?

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 10:28:09
#276 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

No , the speculated sale between Amiga Inc. and Cloanto.

As for Benjamin Hermans I think he would he very happy if the
part of that settlement agreement started being Cloanto instead A.Inc..

And looking back on all of this as it went on "public outbreak"
of crazed Amiga Users never could help anyone.At poll I read
at the time insane amount of old Amiga Users wanted Amithlon
and A.Inc. made it impossible so there was outbreak but it
amounted to nothing.

Amiga Inc. still has trademark , was that sold ? I doubt ...

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 10:44:47
#277 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

you mean the "speculated sale" of the rights to modify 3.1. and the sources?

3.X is not in development anymore and I do not think it would be possible to really modernize it anyway. Besides, you would need to invest lots of money in it and I do not think that Cloanto is interested to do that, Hyperion has for obviously reasons no interest either.

"Amiga" trademark is certainly not sold, it is more or less the only thing left at AmigaInc. that has potentially some value. Amithlon was around 2001 I think? Internet was not that important at that time as it is now. So getting in trouble there is not helpful for anyone.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 05-May-2015 at 10:46 AM.

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 10:46:25
#278 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:

I guess I don't understand what you are implying, or trying to state in your replies to tripos. I thought that you were implying that perhaps Colanto had obtained from Amiga Inc., some of their rights of ownership of AmigaOS3.1, in violation of the settlement agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc., which would result in some of those ownership rights being contestable, should Hyperion wish to pursue the matter in court. In my eyes, that would cloud some of the claims of Colanto's ownership, but I must be misinterpreting some or all of what you had posted.


The settlement agreement does not preclude a sale of the collateral.
in other words, there's nothing in the settlement that prevents a sale of this IP; Well on the contrary: by outlying the terms for such a transfer of IP, it explicitly acknowledges the possibility of such a sale.

My reply to TRIPOS was actually about the terms under which such a transfer of IP could occur, looking at the matter from the point of view of the Settlement Agreement. And that's where we started to disagree.

Evert

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wawa 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 10:49:45
#279 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

quickly looking up the recent debate in ths thread it only confirms one to stay away from amiga or derived ip properties as far as possible since none can ever be sure whom all that belongs and what consequence would it have on you investing anything in it. pretty sure it isnt helping any developments in that area. i can only stay reassured being right on giving up on any entities that claim the amiga heritage exclusively for themselves.

Last edited by wawa on 05-May-2015 at 01:20 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 05-May-2015 at 10:50 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 5-May-2015 11:48:56
#280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11929
From: Norway

@AmigaBlitter

Invest in developers not lawyers. lawyers generate paper, developers generate products.

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