@itix

Hmmm... thinking on, is there a list of the subset of 68k installer commands that are problematic with MorphOS installer, or vice versa? (Is it that simple?)

If so a simple search-based wrapper script could easily be used to automatically choose which installer to use.

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@kolla

The Unix hash-bang-space-slash convention appears to be urban legend:

http://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/shebang/#details

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Boot_WB

Quote:

Hmmm... thinking on, is there a list of the subset of 68k installer commands that are problematic with MorphOS installer, or vice versa? (Is it that simple?)

I dont think so but if there are problematic 68k Installer commands just report them to the bug tracker

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

Update of some broken links in this thread (sorry, only in German):
Lieber mehr echte universelle Rechenleistung bis hin zur KI
Wie wäre es mit einem 40 Bit Computer?
KISS
Universal-CPU/SoC
Sehr bedenklich
eine Frage und die Lösung
Das ist genial + Der Erfolg ist quasi garantiert
Lieber mehr echte universelle Rechenleistung bis hin zur KI

Three new postings, relating to AI (sorry, only in German but I think it's worth reading):
neuronale KI sind eine gefährliche Fehlentwicklung
Mensch und KI
Problemerkennung, wie Menschen schlechte NKI und Effizienzsteigerung

You may wonder, what AmigaOS has to do with AI (artificial intelligence) ... well, right now not much but these are very important thoughts of general interest and to make AmigaOS a leading operating system, one needs to have the right world view. AmigaOS must become a real alternative or it'll soon be history ... and if AmigaOS is a real alternative than it could play a role in AI-development. A 48 bit computer could be more efficient than a 64 bit computer and thus a 48 bit computer can play an important role in AI-development and who say that A-EON/AmigaOS couldn´t have a 48 bit computer one day? Sometimes great things start with great thoughts (and if you think, these are not than just bring some).

If you are not interested, if you can't cope, just ignore this. Don't waste time complaining, there are already enough troll-postings in this thread. Thanks.

@KingKong

Yeah, the Amiga could need some more intelligence, artificial and otherwise.

So let us asume you have a 48bit computer and you want to build an OS for it, how do you do that? What software do you use to build the OS for your new 48bit architecture? Obviously you would need to build backends to various popular compilers, or do you expect people to code assembler for it? How would you boot strap the development? How will you port software buildt for either 32bit or 64bit to a 48bit architecture?

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

What on earth is the point of 48 bit anyway?

Firstly: good experts have to analyse the details and have to find out the optimal solution/design ...

... but the general idea is: A 48 bit system could be better than a 64 bit system, if 48 bit are enough and 64 bit are not working to capacity.

2^48 = ca. 2,8 * 10^14 = 280.000.000.000.000 ... and that's pretty much, for instance ca. 280 terabytes. Yeah, supercomputers use more memory but that hasn't to be all in the same addressspace.

A 48 bit system could be pretty much compatible to 32 bit and 64 bit - this may be somewhat unefficient and slower but not so much.

A 48 bit system could have 96 bit integer (hardware supported calculation but with 48 bit data bus).

A 48 bit system could have 6 byte and 12 byte floating point (hardware supported calculation but with 48 bit data bus).

A 48 bit system has 16 bit less than a 64 bit system and that saves transistors and energy.

AmigaOS is more or less 32 bit - an upgrade to 48 bit shouldn't be so difficult, at least possible.

All software could be recompiled and obviously there should be some kind of a 32 bit compatibility mode.

The biggest problem is the hardware - development could be quite expensive but if it is better than 64 bit, it's worth the effort. The system should at first use conventional DRAM (what's on the market).

If that was too easy, here is a problem: how could ECC be integrated? ECC is very important - remember: AmigaOS and harware must be first class usable for military, industry and so on.

Is it better, to have a 40 bit data bus with 8 bit ECC? This could break the byte-system, could lead to 10, 20, 40, 80 bit data types and 5 or 10 byte floating point. So what? Why not? It's more than a 32 bit system and 32 bit still aren't bad.

This may be a big chance for Amiga, because no big player would give up 64 bit ... but 48 bit could be a very good idea: this could lead to a more efficient system, even with pretty much ECC ... and if this isn't a great idea, than what is? (imho, as ever)

@KingKong: the problem is that you know of computer science the same as I know of do-it-yourself...

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @KingKong: the problem is that you know of computer science the same as I know of do-it-yourself...

Do you know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer ?

Your analogy has failed if the answer is yes.

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos: I haven't said that my knowledge is zero. Just a little bit above, like Epsilon for mathematicians.

@KingKong

Everything is possible if you have the $$$dough$$$ and unlimited time and patience ^^

[joke answer so don't get mad]]

Last edited by saimon69 on 15-Jun-2015 at 08:20 PM.

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Scarabocchi Binari - Italian AROS Blog
Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @Kronos: I haven't said that my knowledge is zero. Just a little bit above, like Epsilon for mathematicians.

I think he was trying to say that if you know even the slightest thing about DIY (the difference between a hammer and a screwdriver) that's still more than 48-bit guy knows about computer science.

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote: remember: AmigaOS and harware must be first class usable for military, industry and so on.

The old EULA for Amiga IIRC explicitly prohibits use of Amiga technologies for military purposes, it was a system made by and for hippies and alternative people, remember... "leftists" ;)

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

Oh boy.


Greatest display of ignorance ever.
Not sure if this thread is funny or sad.

Poor guy seems incapable of understanding that he has no understanding of which he speaks, then thinks people are trolling when they (justifyable) scoff.

Only Amiga makes it possible.

Well, in all fairness, computers with odd databus widths, like 12bit, 24bit and 36bit, but this was always done for sake of saving - going 48bit now just makes little sense, you would just end up with a system that for most practical purposes is 32bit, since most (if not all) modern" data structures (software as well as data) are typically multiples or simple fractions of 32bit.

For example an IPv6 address is 128bit, and is typically stored and treated as two 64bit entities, or four 32bit entities - in a 48bit world, it would be many options, but none optimal nor obvious - bits would be wasted.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@KingKong

I wish I could remember the site that talked about a 40 or 48 bit system.
It sounded like it could do all that we needed in a computer system.

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John 3:16

@BrianHoskins
Quote:

BrianHoskins wrote: @cdimauro Quote: cdimauro wrote: @Kronos: I haven't said that my knowledge is zero. Just a little bit above, like Epsilon for mathematicians. I think he was trying to say that if you know even the slightest thing about DIY (the difference between a hammer and a screwdriver) that's still more than 48-bit guy knows about computer science.

ROFL Then he owned me.

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: Well, in all fairness, computers with odd databus widths, like 12bit, 24bit and 36bit, but this was always done for sake of saving - going 48bit now just makes little sense, you would just end up with a system that for most practical purposes is 32bit, since most (if not all) modern" data structures (software as well as data) are typically multiples or simple fractions of 32bit. For example an IPv6 address is 128bit, and is typically stored and treated as two 64bit entities, or four 32bit entities - in a 48bit world, it would be many options, but none optimal nor obvious - bits would be wasted.

Right. That's why he has to show us how to solve all such kind of problems, starting from this 48-bit architecture up to the applications that have to be written or changed to take advantage (or at least to limit the problems) of it.

The first thing is to define the types hierarchies. If a 48-bit is the "equivalent" of "long long" aka 64-bit integer, I can suppose that an integer (or long, assuming they are the same; it depends on the ABI) is 24-bit, a short is 12-bit, and a char... 6 bits?!?

But it 48-bit is an integer/long, well, such architecture will not so much efficient as it was depicted.

And the same for floats.

Anyway, it's up to the guy, which has expressed such weird idea, to show how it works "in the real world".

Last edited by cdimauro on 16-Jun-2015 at 06:10 AM.

@fishy_fis

Quote:

Greatest display of ignorance ever. Not sure if this thread is funny or sad. Poor guy seems incapable of understanding that he has no understanding of which he speaks, then thinks people are trolling when they (justifyable) scoff.

What's sad is that rather than just ignoring him (the ideal reaction) or replying him with a face-palm (the understandable reaction), a bunch of people is even attempting to argue about what he says... and here you go, yet another utterly pointless thread.

But I actually envy this guy's candor, which once would have left me furious...
...except for a couple outstandingly irritating behaviors:

1) The slew of links to unrelated stuff he banters about here and there... in german.

2) That lecturer's tone he always uses... "ECC is very important - remember: AmigaOS and harware must be first class usable for military, industry and so on."



.....REMEMBER!

@kolla

>The old EULA for Amiga IIRC explicitly prohibits use of Amiga technologies for military purposes

Since when?
I've used Amiga powered military device in 1991.

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Jun-2015 at 08:08 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?