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PosterThread
Hans 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update
Posted on 27-Mar-2023 14:41:03
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5074
From: New Zealand

@Hypex

Quote:
Yes and they are third party. I've not tested them so don't know if they include an installer or setup utility that lets you chose an SSID through a GUI.

Taking a quick peek inside the archive on os4depot, a WirelessManager program is included.

Quote:
But in OS4 itself it has no support for WiFi. Roadshow would need updating and would need updates to Wizard and Internet so that WiFi can be configured with the GUI. But, at present, it also needs a few things fixed such as detecting and dealing with cable out. This would likely need a SANA III but Roadshow cannot deal with broken connections and cannot shut itself down without a reboot in most cases.

The latest SANA-II spec has an 802.11 wireless networking section. No idea how much Roadshow uses it, though. And yes, there's no official UI for wifi devices.

Regardless of the shortcomings, wireless is already usable.

NOTE: I personally used a mini router in bridge mode instead of a plugging in a wifi card (before I installed network wiring to connect directly).

Hans


P.s., The graphics drivers are also third-party these days.

Last edited by Hans on 27-Mar-2023 at 02:42 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update
Posted on 27-Mar-2023 15:53:25
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2163
From: Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
we are at stagnation, when it comes to CPU, RAM, HD


Couldn't be further from the truth.
In recent years cpu, ram, and storage mediums have seen the biggest and quickest advancements in many, many years.
NVME.m2 drives are doing about 10GB/ps, 32GB of ddr4@3200 is now entry level at best, and cpus have seen very large IPC and core count increases.
It's a new era of raw computing performance; a different beast to what has come before.
Low spec systems still exist, but they're the parallel to things like ATOM/Celeron based netbooks (ie. basically toys), so even they're a far cry from their equivalents from ~2015.

For basic tasks a minimum spec was reached a while back, but that's a very different thing to stagnation.
Try doing a large compile on an even high end machine from a few years back and you'll see just how huge the advancement of modern systems is in a short time let alone vs what was a good system from around 2015.

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agami 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update
Posted on 28-Mar-2023 7:14:40
#123 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@fishy_fis @NutsAboutAmiga

You're both kind of right, and you're both kind of wrong.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Even if the commercial realities of our world were not present, progress would still not be a straight line. I'm not going to go into the graph of how innovation works, but there are many nodes in the network which influence speed of progress.

Given that most R&D is run by commercial entities, and even public research institutes like Australia's CSIRO are beholden to politics, which is beholden to economics. This is why progress generally follows a trajectory of punctuated equilibrium.

If companies had it their way, they'd just keep charging people for the already developed things. This is why in capitalism companies tend towards monopolies, because they hate that the competition is constantly trying to eat their lunch.
As much as larger companies buy smaller companies for the IP as a surrogate for their lack of innovation, they just as much buy these companies to remove disruption from the market and have the ability to roll things out on a timeline that suits their market capitalization.

Eventually, disruptive technologies will make it to the market, out from the blind spots of the giants, and will usher in a period of fast paced innovation. But then the big players that survive (R.I.P. Nokia, Blackberry, Blockbuster, Windows Phone, Yahoo) do the the voodoo that they do so well, and establish a new equilibrium.

So as @fishy_fis outlined, during the periods of equilibrium (what you labelled "stagnation") there is ongoing incremental innovation. Nothing that threatens to upset the current landscape. More cores on mainstream CPUs, Big-Little architectures for embedded and desktops, scaling SoC ARM64 to desktop-class ARM64 SoP, DDR5 RAM, PCIe 4 GPUs and NVMe drives, 40GBs USB4, 4k webcams, WiFi 6e, Bluetooth 5.x, etc.

These innovations allow more people to create more things at a lowering price of entry. The past decade has been a boon for VR, 3D modelling and printing, movie making and video production, ML and A.I., and it's always welcomed by game developers and players of AAA titles.

But for most people, they can do what they need to on a run-of-the-mill tablet or a sub $500 Raspberry Pi 4B 8GB system. For them it's a "stagnation" in specs, because they don't need more, but it's a benefit from lower prices and reduction in size.

Until the next punctuation, when we fundamentally change the nature of how we approach computing, a.k.a the 3rd computing revolution.

Last edited by agami on 29-Mar-2023 at 02:15 AM.
Last edited by agami on 28-Mar-2023 at 07:17 AM.

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drGspot 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update 2023 3
Posted on 29-Mar-2023 9:27:23
#124 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2023
Posts: 2
From: Unknown

... so upDate... on our say AmigaOne x8000/40 Power8 or say PowerBook G9 :)

3 prototypes are made, some test signaling allready done...:

https://web.archive.org/web/20221214223221/https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2022/12/prototypes-produced-lets-go-on-hardware-tests/

https://web.archive.org/web/20230320052351/https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2023/02/prototypes-testing-results/

https://hackaday.com/2022/12/09/an-open-source-powerpc-notebook-edges-closer/

... on aboveMentioned pri$€: as a notForProfit Foundation, we don"t make a Product,
but do a Project; high probability that Product will be done by our 1.st outSourcer
aCube from Italy (preOrdering, not crowdSourcing/Funding), notebook case by 2.nd outSourcer
SlimBook Spain (Eclipse model); some stuff they outSource even to China further in the
line...so we initially projected the Zone of 6oo - 8oo €u, correcting that later to 1ooo €u,
but some components got increase in cost even like +3000% :-O , so that target is now,
2023/3 rather questionable... we even had to lower 5 to 3 prototypes...

...we just had maybe even 60-&-some-th colaboration IRC chat meeting, on our now
"PowerBoard Tyche" PowerPC/Power8 notebook... 🐧

Topics planned were...of which we managed to grasp mabe first two...rest next time...:

***************Topics****************************
1. Gnu uBoot firmware / deviceTree progress upDate
2. CPLD progress upDate
3. Components upDate
4. Miscelenious:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
a) proposal of Valve (?) guy for porting valwe goldSource
HalfLife engine; idea for SteamOS (Debian Gnu, Arch) PPC64 endianBig
(AltiVecTorUnit / VelocityEngine supp) In multiBoot on notebook, with
AmigaOS 4.1 finEd, MorphOS 3.17, ArOS 2.3 ; snapShop from
PowerProgressCommunity Discord

https://pastebin.com/8D5DAhL8

The rest of talk at Discord

b) possibility of bringing PowerBoard Tyche prototypes to Dors Cluc Linux
Convention on booth / stand in May + possible lecture of it in May 11.th - 12.th

https://www.dorscluc.org/
https://www.dorscluc.org/category/news/

c) AmigaEvent38 october 7.th 2023 ?

http://amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2023-03-00028-DE.html

d) Riccardo Sw thread: ArcticFox fork PaleMoon last nonRust FireFox 52
& rest of bigEndian builds for MacPPC, LinuxPPC, bsdPPC, AmigaPPC (?)
*****************************************************************************

some history...:

yeah, the Journey was hellOfaRide, when Roberto Inocenti put first article on his
Delirio Tecnologico Blog ... & started OSHW avalanche… i think in 2014... :)

http://deliriotecnologico.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2015-03-13T10:06:00%2B01:00&max-results=8&start=10&by-date=false

so roughly, idea 2014, Project in 2015 started & Power Progress Community nonProfit Foundation
in 2016 (which later beCame memeber of OpenPower, which with The Linux Foundation owns
Open Sourced PowerPC/Power PowerISA Patent Rights now)...

a lot of history & clarification is covered in these presentations, from many FreeLibreOpen SW HW & AmigaOne (read Power6 & 7, we build Power8) events…:

https://www.youtube.com/@PowerProgressCommunity

https://web.archive.org/web/20230307113853/https://www.powerprogress.org/en/

…allthough, in early stage, we considered even "Dome" ddrFormFactor serverOnChip SoC of bigBlue
(which is used in sqareKilometerArray of radioTelescopes), as a "PPC Foundation" for our mobo,
we choosed aCube (besides A-Eon, one of 2 firms that build Power6 & 7 AmigaOnes, as well
as PPC SOCs), as our main outSourcer & builder, so the notebook will be quadC0re,
octaThread, & capable of both endianess, as all Power7+,8,9 & beyond ISAs CPU archs,
& support AltiVec(tor) Unit / Velocity Engine, so VMX VSX is available, but only in eg.
Debian GNU/LinuxPPC64 endianBig byteOrdering scheme (older, & onlyOne possible on Power7 &
beLow, 6, G5 (64bit), G4 (which is present in 1.st iterations of AmigaOne hw also, later
A-One hw ending in Power6 & 7), G3 (Atari RioRed Dream), G2 (legendary Phase5 603e BlizzardPPC
hybrid aSymetric multiProcesing: m68k-ppc32 contextSwitching)...

intelByteOrdering is more atractive for c0ders & developers / testers, coz sourceC0de needs
little to none intervention, due to fact that it is primarily targeted to x86 ISA CPU arch

interestingly, Intel added 512 bit vector unit 26 years late :)
ok, misUse of segmentationMechanism for memoryProtection/virtualisation is all the
Evil in the World :-O longLinear MMU flat memoryModel rULeZ \o/ & addsUp to better
c0deDensity... 🐧

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltiVec

the problem we are now facing, after not the LibreBoot, not C0reBoot(ex linuxBios), but
Gnu uBoot firmware & deviceTree will be written, is that Debian in Rel 9 ditched endianBig
from Stable Release, & Debian 10 Buster egzists only in endianLittle / intelByteOrdering
for PPC64, rendering AltiVecTor Unit / VelocityEngine unUsable, coz same register set is
used for byteOrder mangling… :/

https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/

regarding OS-es & userLand apps, there are some ideas to crossPort all popular enthusiastic
Platforms as well, like AmigaOS 4.1 upDate 6 / FinalEdition EnhancSw, MorphOS 3.17, ArOS 2.3,
variuous system5 (openSolaris, indiana, illumos) & bsd unixes like Net, Open & FreeBSD, MacOS X
OpenDarwin (Fink apt dpkg port is cool), realTime OS-es, egzotics like Haiku OpenBeOS/Zeta
(which initially was made for PPC), Redox... why not Atari FreeMiNT (Floss & bsd based GEM/TOS
hybrid) :) 🐧

https://web.archive.org/web/20201020084628/https://forum.powerpc-notebook.org/index.php?board=6.0

in development we used YoctoLinux & LinuxFromScratch recepies, but main development
platform is Debian GNU/LinuxPPC64 endianBig... while FieniX, voidPPC, deVUAn fork, Gentoo,
Arch are becoming more & more temptiing, regardless of endianess / byteOrdering :)
if we don"t sucseed to return PPC64EB to Debian Gnu, we will probably maintain our own fork/
port/spin... consolidation of developers time, is also an important aspect...

https://voidlinux-ppc.org/

http://vivapowerpc.eu/20210208-1330_Gentoo_installation_on_ppc64le

typeUp

dGs
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autoRecursive pasteBin to self: https://pastebin.com/FUQz6jV3
version 0.2 https://pastebin.com/u72MpbPr
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Power8 Notebook upDate 2023 amigaWorldNet*
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https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40287&forum=33&121

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fishy_fis 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update 2023 3
Posted on 29-Mar-2023 10:26:09
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2163
From: Australia

@drGspot

Pardon?
Is this some sort of troll post?
There's so much wrong with it along with it being full of mixing uppercase, lowercase and numerical substitutions of letters that it reads somewhere inbetween someone mocking overenthusiastic "fanbois" who lack any insight into why what theyve written is "naive" and a bot.

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drGspot 
Re: PowerPC notebook - Status update 2023 3
Posted on 30-Mar-2023 2:48:25
#126 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2023
Posts: 2
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

That was not my intent :) Sorry for that perception... :/

Maybe broader aspect will explain...: Througout all 7 pages, i saw little to none
refference to actual instigator & builder of PowerPC Notebook: "Power Progress Community"
Foundation, so there was a need to clarify the context of this Cern OSHW Licenced hw...

Even on Amiga37 Event in Germany, Enrico from aCube said only "with the help of linux
community" :/

The mixing of upper & lower case is, as you said, bad habit, is a "bigCamel" technology from
tamTam, SocialText, MediaWiki syntax, we use on skillShare workshops in local
hackLabs / makerSpaces, to horizontally colaborate some activisms...

One nice oportunity opens now, to end wIntel gameing & the rest monopolly (which streches
also to GPU hw, or even firmware), due to several technology emerged, or older which matured...:

- OpenSourcing PowerISA 2.07 & beyond CPU architecture
- OpenGL (Silicon Graphics SGI Unix 3D engine)
- OpenCL
- Vulkan (Ati/Amd 3D engine / drivers, developed by Floss ecosystem/community)
- Godot 4.0 (as replacement for Unity)
New Vulkan renderer & 3D features of Godot 4.0 ; Mladen Bošnjak | DORS/CLUC 2022
https://youtu.be/VvIjdah6ILI
. ProtonDB (onTheFly translation of $-$oft DirectX to Vulkan)
- SteamOS cloud gameing platform (as an local OperatingSystem)
. Steam as a cloud gaming service
- guy with Valve backGround offers some new concepts of app & game building & delivery
- the development of AmigaOS, MorphOS, ArOS, even MacOS X, Atari FreeMiNT is very
influenced / dependant on gnu C compiler collection (gcc)
. most of the retroNew & newNew hw in above examples also wouldn"t see the light of day
without Floss approach, concept, development, implementation
- also, someone mentioned "niches" where the mega companies, corporations are
not alerted to disrupt, to "keep bussines as usual"

Our T2080 notebook, later maybe even blade server, digital convergence appliance,
gaming console, tablet, toys, smartphone, smartTV (remember C= CDTV, AmigaCD32, AmigaMCC,
AmigaWalker, AmigaAnywhere, even x500 Plus Case...?) could make the difference...

Our Foundation"s Statute is actually open to every somehow Libre (of Patents) or at
least Open spec CPU architecture, which practicaly are mostly Risc technology (Risc-5,
Power, Arm not full scope ISA, & partly blackBox in some product implementation,
UltraSparc (?), Mips (?)

IntelManagmentEngine espionage in Ring -2/3, in Uefi Gpt Esp, is problem per se...
After Intel, Amd, now even Arm is contaminated, to further deteriote users & citizen"s
Rights & Freedoms...:

https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/intel-me-and-why-we-should-get-rid-of-me
https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel
https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/purism-road-to-fsf-ryf-graphic-20150812-700x745.jpeg
https://publiccode.eu/en/

The ecology aspect of "forced planned obscolesence" of hw & sw is topic for even an Open Panel

https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop

The idea is, when hw is stabilised, that PPC Founation instigate negotiation, with all
relevant factors, for things to happen (hw core group, sw core gropup, translators/,..)

Feel free to point, if there is correction needed in initial post, to edit \o/

dGs

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