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      /  Commodore PET Android 5 Smartphone by CBM Ltd. London
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PosterThread
number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 12:34:39
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@thread

October 8, 2015 summary of events and some new info

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:22:01
#142 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

I think there's no scam here , registering all those trademarks
isn't really that easy (anyone can try and see) and I'm talking
about CBM so apart from starting a company and registering
their own trademarks they have to invest in production and make
distribution channels (both for warranty and support as well as
delivery) while being blocked with crazy US lawyers sending "cease
and desist" demands everywhere they can.

Looking at the new C64 cases Kickstarter even legal staff there
got pissed at the guy making those so it paints clear picture to me
what is happening now.

Apart from that phone may fail for many other reasons (emulators
not finished or ever questioned legality of emulation of anything) ,
production runs (how many you need to order and how soon can
you have them delivered and tested) and off course the risk of not
selling enough which is the biggest risk of all.

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:32:34
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@blizz1220

Quote:
Looking at the new C64 cases Kickstarter even legal staff there
got pissed at the guy making those so it paints clear picture to me
what is happening now.


I know you understand this, but for those who do not...

C=Holdings B.V. was NOT pissed at the guy making the cases.

The company was more than happy to leave them alone as long as they did not add the branding TO the cases without getting permission from C=Holdings B.V. first.

The article I just linked to used the phrase:
Quote:
C=Holdings B.V., which is acting more like a trademark squatter


Surely you can see that EVERYONE who has written about this does NOT know what C=Holdings B.V. plans might be or what deals they might already have in place with other companies. That's why you see "acting more like" instead of any facts.

#6

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OlafS25 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:42:18
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5668
From: Unknown

@number6

the last "news" on their page is from 2013 and they have never published anything. Must be really longterm planning...

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:45:36
#145 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

I said Kicstarter legal persons not Commodore Corp. as they
were the ones getting in tight legal spot for allowing kickstarter
WITH commodore logo , I'm sure they weren't pleased later ...

As for Commodore Corp. and Eugene I followed everything and he/they
NEVER gave any license to anyone , the validated previous ones that
were given by Asiarim , nothing more than that.If CUSA asked them they
might not get them , we don't know that.They seem to plan to use
existing Commodore trademark as registered by them to settle some
previous debt which is sad for them as there is little chance that they
will ever get more than that 1 million $ from Asiarim and nobody will
ever pay them for licensing unless they start acting more realistic.

Same goes for all other companies that bought into leftovers from
Commodore/Amiga corpse and got few pieces (Cloanto ahem) as it's
their own fault for making bad investments.Charging people for free
emulator and ROMs that most already own is what I call a scam.

Last edited by blizz1220 on 12-Oct-2015 at 01:45 PM.

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:46:08
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@OlafS25

Can we at least agree that this is a lose/lose situation for all Commodore and Amiga companies regardless of how they address PR?

If they talk too much we get complaints on the forums about missed deadlines etc.

If they don't speak until they deliver product we get complaints that nothing is going on and "we need to know what they are doing".

#6

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:49:48
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@blizz1220

You simply do not know whether the prior license to use the Commodore trademark still exists with CUSA nor whether the contract showed it to be transferable, so I don't see how you can draw the conclusion you just did.
And again, if C=Holdings B.V. does have a licensee, they are not required to make that known.

#6

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OlafS25 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:52:20
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5668
From: Unknown

@number6

it was a mistake to use a brand name if you are not 100% sure that you can use it legally, expecially if you start to sell already. It is very unfortunate that the old brands are now moving around at more or less serious companies.

Regarding the smartphones... if I would not be sure when I can deliver the products I would not start to sell at all or at least offer to give the money back.

For this "C=Holdings B.V." I do not believe that it is a problem. Does anyone know who is the owner of this company? It reminds me a little of Amiga Inc.

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OlafS25 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 13:54:48
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5668
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

they are charging for free emulators?

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:02:38
#150 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

Why would contract have to have a clause for transfer if CUSA
thought (as they did) that Asiarim was owner ?

It was done by court with their approval probably and somehow
seeing how these legal things go I think they only gave that so they
wouldn't have to risk loosing anything in next court case.

As for trademarks anyone who knows how they work in Europe it's
pretty simple , if you buy trademark registered for computer hardware
and cases you have to start making those or anyone can wipe them
out of existence.Making 10 or 200 in 5 years isn't enough either.

Last companies that made use of Amiga trademark were Escom and
Gateway , after that it was just a bunch of "rights on paper" which are
under some protection in US but not so much in Europe.

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:04:54
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@OlafS25

Quote:
Does anyone know who is the owner of this company?


The brief history with names is all here

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:05:53
#152 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yes (WIN)Uae.Last time I checked it was free.

There are some other things of value in AmigaForever but
same can be said for ClassicWB,AmigaSYS,Aros68 etc ...

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:06:51
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@blizz1220

Quote:
Why would contract have to have a clause for transfer if CUSA
thought (as they did) that Asiarim was owner ?


We've been over this before. I've posted the links. Barry was dealing with the new (rightful) owners BEFORE the lawsuit.

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:17:48
#154 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

Yes , yes , with license offered by Asiarim in hand (sigh)

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OlafS25 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:23:32
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5668
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Amikit and similar are also available as separate downloads

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terminills 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:28:28
#156 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:

@number6

Yes , yes , with license offered by Asiarim in hand (sigh)



Unpaid license ;)

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Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:32:07
#157 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@terminills

Lol yes , well if 5 companies asked you for money to get a
license you would probably wait with payment too right ? :)

Still , if license was offered it was a green light to go ahead
as payment can be delayed in contract.

And as for Cloanto , sure they will gladly "support" any Amiga
(how should I call them ? "distros" ?) as long as you pay.No
reason they shouldn't as "distros" are fan made and free and
money goes for Cloanto.

Last edited by blizz1220 on 12-Oct-2015 at 02:33 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:36:22
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5668
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

regarding Cloanto, they have exclusive rights to sell the roms, their own specific distribution of course. The other integrated distributions are just a service for the customers and a specific incentive to buy Amigaforever. They do not hinder anyone to offer it elsewhere (except the original roms of course). I do not see anything bad there.

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blizz1220 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:45:56
#159 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Let me go Number 6 on you , have you seen legal documents
that prove that Cloanto is owner of those ROMs ? From all that
hype it seems to me they can bundle them with their emulation
package (even for real Amigas) and nothing more than that.

Why are some ROMs encrypted and "Copyrighted by Cloanto"
is also another clue as to how much rights they hold over them.
"Agreement of coexistence" (strange thing by name even) with
Amiga Inc. is another clue.

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number6 
Re: Moral compass
Posted on 12-Oct-2015 14:59:28
#160 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10834
From: In the village

@blizz1220

Final interview on the podcast is Mike

Seriously, this podcast has quite a bit of enlightening information and worth a listen.

#6

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