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/  Forum Index
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      /  The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
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number6 
The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:04:22
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
Kouri paid for AmigaOS4, therefore since he didn't receive said AmigaOS4, there is a debt. Since Pentti passed away, this debt is to the family/family trust.
Since Darren still acted for their interests as well as the interests of Amiga Inc., this really isn't something being written off.

That's why I mentioned before that buying Amiga Inc. is more than just buying Amiga Inc. as a company.

Source


One AW bit of historical reference

My apologies for linking to a thread SO heavily moderated for abuse...page after page.

reference to the specific property



Now onto putting this all together:

Closing of the estate

Quote:
it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers.


I think I want to throw up....

Hall Of Shame Member - Where Quality Matters But Legal Ethics Does not

For those who forgot, a prerequisite of selling Amiga Inc. was always believed to require the settling of the above estate. So, this is meaningful.

#6

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:15:20
#2 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
A rep for the Kouri family declined to comment.


Source

Indeed.

#6

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damocles 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:31:21
#3 ]
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@number6

And Amiga Inc?

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 19:53:38
#4 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@damocles

Quote:
And Amiga Inc?


Not sure what you mean.

This IS Amiga Inc.'s attorney, Darren B. Cohen and his crew.

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:10:59
#5 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

When you say that late Mr. Kouri paid for AmigaOS 4 (I admit
I didn't read :P wouldn't help if I did unless there are up to date
legal contracts there ) does it mean he paid HYPERION to make
AmigaOS 4 or did he invest / give (difference) capital to Amiga Inc.
to get that project done ?

Since I would guess it was other option then it's very easy , Kouris
legal representatives just have to sue Amiga Inc.They didn't do that
because if they did I guess it would be public by now.It was failed
project and even if they took ownership now by some means (don't
see how , legal case is closed) there wouldn't be much money there.

From what I see Darren and Mr. Kouri had more of a "friendly" type
of business deal with Bill McEwen and don't seem to eager to make
him suffer.

Bill McEwen is owner of Amiga Inc. , if he was to sell it through Darren
as his lawyer there would be no legal way for Darren to just take his
client's money.Legal ethics.

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:17:05
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@blizz1220

Quote:
From what I see Darren and Mr. Kouri had more of a "friendly" type
of business deal with Bill McEwen


lol

I really need a direct link from you to prove that one.

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:24:15
#7 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

Well I just try to use reason stupid me ...

Would you give large amounts of money to just some
guy you don't like and when he came back and said "Er
I spent it playing in casino" would you not sue ?

Kouri was investor behind Bill , right ?

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:29:40
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@blizz1220

A discussion of WHO thought they were buying WHAT is way beyond the scope of this thread.

Suffice it to say that people like ProKom, Kouri, etc. thought they were going to be doing something with the operating system, based on their "investments".
If you search AW for those names, you'll see.
Also freeamiga gives a brief summary of same.

Source

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 20:52:22
#9 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

I'm sorry , I have some less complicated things to read
and frankly that's your area of expertise.I'd say you should
start writing a book (seriously) so those interested can
catch up :)

What I wanted to correct you on is what you said that "sale
of Amiga Inc. might have to go through Darren".That has no
legal sense , trust me.Property is one of absolute rights ,
Amiga Inc. (correct me if I'm wrong) is sole property of one
Bill McEwen.Owner has all rights on his property (to sell , to
rent (license) or whatever).Only one who can stop owner
from doing that would be co-owner.So if someone has a debt
he can sue and become co-owner of Amiga Inc. (value of
company would in that case be determined by court appointed
specialists).If Bill has 100 % ownership of Amiga Inc. (as it is
now) he can sell it and new owner doesn't have to worry about
any debts of previous owner (that's not his problem) but only
companies debts..

All I wanted to say.Also , lawyers will work for whoever hires
them , they are more like ninjas and less than samurai in that
aspect.So using terms like "Kouri's lawyer" is a bit of a stretch ,
they probably have other clients or are willing to take them.

One thing to note here is that is lawyer takes two clients that have
legal conflict between them and chooses to keep both and represent
them in that conflict he won't have license to practice law for much
longer.

Last edited by blizz1220 on 28-Aug-2015 at 08:53 PM.

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 21:08:56
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@blizz1220

You rewrote my words.

I said:

Quote:
Since Darren still acted for their interests as well as the interests of Amiga Inc.,


and

Quote:
That's why I mentioned before that buying Amiga Inc. is more than just buying Amiga Inc. as a company.


refers to them wanting the debt INCLUDED in the sale. You buy the company. You buy the debt. We've been over this before.

#6

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blizz1220 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 28-Aug-2015 21:30:33
#11 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@number6

Debt of a company as legal entity is ALWAYS included in
sale , no need for extra intervention.

Debt of a individual can't be included in sale of his company ,
all he can do is ask for a larger price.

No lawyer could make Bill do either (legally) nor could he
leave any signed evidence.If that was the case only possibility
would be informal verbal agreement between them that debt
would be settled with the sale.Once sale goes through they can
still sue former owner as individual , no way to stop him from
selling or even giving it away.

If Amiga Inc. has signed admission of debt than new owner would
have to pay it as it is company debt.

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Boot_WB 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 9:24:05
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:

Quote:
it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers.


I think I want to throw up....

#6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWWU4THwre8

"Legal Ingenuity" - I don't quite know what to say... I guess that would be analogous to 'creative accounting'.

We don't know the substance of how this was settled wrt Amiga Inc, although I would hope any settlement would at least make it possible for Amiga Inc to value its liabilities (err, and assets?) with a bit more certainty.

Hopefully progress, but after 6 years of Reed Smith in feeding frenzy...

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blizz1220 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 10:47:39
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Lol

Well I would say that you can't blame just the lawyer , someone
has to make debts , deals , plans , mess etc and then he hires
lawyer to get the hell out of it.

Many lawyers would take cases that they know won't make any
money even when they win (in some countries , they can't even
refuse) as long as client pays court taxes.Pretty sure every lawyer
had a case or 10 in his/hers life.

My point being that it's wiser to ask experts in the field you are entering
(such as IT industry) and consult with lawyer before you get into that kind
of situation.Most people tend to ignore what they are being told (especially
by lawyers) and just say to push on through.It's not lawyer's decision to
make in the end.

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 12:59:07
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Boot_WB

Quote:
We don't know the substance of how this was settled wrt Amiga Inc,


Well, it's a very brief statement and still manages to contain a boatload of ambiguity.

The key word "wants" and the Kouri families' "no comment" both indicate this is anything but settled as of August 15 anyway, when this was released.

More importantly perhaps, if one is speculating on what happens next:

(1)They must want to sell

(2)I suspect limited interest given my layman's understanding of the settlement agreement with Hyperion CVBA.

As I understand it, any buyer would have to continue to honor that agreement, which would (as it does now) severly limit the buyer's options. To me this makes it of value only to someone already involved that also just happens to want the "name".

#6

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pavlor 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 13:04:31
#15 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@number6

How big these debts to settle may be?

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 13:15:26
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@pavlor

Quote:
How big these debts to settle may be?


Quote:
tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate


That's kinda like saying "between 200 and 2000 sold" (evil grin)
20-90 million then?

It's also unclear if the article means to say that all of that has been addressed.

Quote:
generally cleaning up the estate of

Quote:
six years to untangle


That indicates work was done, but not the same as saying outright "all debts have been paid", right?

#6


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Raffaele 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 29-Aug-2015 17:22:20
#17 ]
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Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@number6

There are also grant investments, my dear number6, you know...

A grant investment take set when a tycoon gives you funds to complete a project or open a merchandise/shop/manifacture plant, but without requiring money back.

It is like a sort of pro-bono beneficence to let enterprises or new firms growing up.

Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 05:27 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 05:25 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 29-Aug-2015 at 05:22 PM.

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 30-Aug-2015 13:07:36
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Raffaele

Quote:
There are also grant investments, my dear number6, you know


As in "angel investors", which I've written about. True.

But this is positively NOT the case here.

One of many threads

which should illustrate the relationships and how happy people of great wealth and power must have felt about the results.(/end sarcasm)
If you read this link, keep in mind that Pentti Kouri=ITEC and former Amiga Inc. board of director's member Ryszard Krauze=ProKom, both of whom filed leins in the settlement agreement.

If you think this indicates a group of angel investors who were not expecting anything...

You might also enjoy reading same topic from when the author of freeamiga came to visit AW:

Source
and
Source
etc.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 30-Aug-2015 at 01:16 PM.

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 9-Jan-2018 16:34:15
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
The sculpture came from the estate of the late Dr. Pentti Kouri, who accumulated a significant art collection with leanings toward Minimalism, Arte Povera, Conceptual and text-based art. Beginning with this auction, Millea Bros. is offering 400 works from his collection over several sales in the next year.


Source December 2017

ok. So Reed Smith is nowhere near closing Kouri's estate.

#6

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number6 
Re: The Closing of Pentti Kouri's Estate
Posted on 1-May-2018 18:02:53
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Still more of the estate being sold off in May.

https://auctions.milleabros.com/

Quote:
Contemporary Art and Design from the Collection of Dr. Pentti Kouri including Tim Hawkinsen, Lawrence Carrol, Hermann Nitsch, and Otto Zitko


#6

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