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      /  What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
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Hypex 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 13:34:35
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9566
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Trixie

Quote:
It was simply too much work, even for a person with audio-software programming experience.


Having converted one source of the replayer routine to use AHI I can believe that.

Quote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: A-EON should stop buying old software sources without having a clue what's in store. The fact that a program was hip twenty years ago does not mean it can easily be adapted to contemporary standards.


It also still works fine. Could do with AHI support. And with it better quality mixing.

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Leo 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 15:30:23
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: A-EON should stop buying old software sources without having a clue what's in store. The fact that a program was hip twenty years ago does not mean it can easily be adapted to contemporary standards.

True. Or they should at least release the source code/binary. It won't make a port magically appear but at least won't make it lost forever.

Money can't buy everything... as was seen with Thimberwolf.

This makes me think about other apps which souce code was bought but ports never materialized: Final Writer, Aladdin 4D.

So much wasted money...

Last edited by Leo on 31-Jan-2018 at 03:32 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 16:19:33
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@Leo

68k versions are running (almost) everywhere... instead to use what is there, remove some bugs and add functionality and have a big market they try to port it to obscure hardware (PPC) and to obscure OS (4.X) and fail. I overdo a little of course ;)

to be serious this native ports to PPC never can be profitable, for that the markets are too small. And by porting old software I do not believe that they sell expensive hardware to people outside. For that they would need a complete set of modern software including office, web browser and so on

for existing amigans staying 68k makes more sense. But it is not my money...

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Leo 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 18:56:11
#84 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

If I remember correctly they expected to target a wider audience by porting these apps to every NG Amiga OS.

In the end they just sold old 68k versions while promising people would get a native version for their NG OS.

Of course this never happened.

Last edited by Leo on 31-Jan-2018 at 06:56 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 20:41:45
#85 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4391
From: Portsmouth England

@Leo

You seam to merging several "theys" and several applications into one seamless blob.

PPaint from one "they" was released for PPC with several improvments over the original 68k version.

Final Writer from another 'they' is stil in prgess IIUC.

ImageFX and OctaMed haven't happened yet, no idea of the plans.

It's worth noting it's not just about the product but the code in the product, which can be reused in other products.

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Leo 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 22:14:45
#86 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

@broadblues

"They" refers to Aladdin 4D and Final Writer.

If the ports take years, I guess there is something wrong. Either it's a too difficult task, or the developer (s) doesn't have enough time or money to work on the port.

In any case I call it a failure. These apps were already outdated the day there were bought so if it takes another 2 to 5 years to get released that becomes antique software...

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BigD 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 22:53:55
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4874
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
for existing amigans staying 68k makes more sense. But it is not my money...


Yeah, it is probably more fun to mess with Lightwave 3D 5 on a Classic 'miggy than to invest almost 2,000 and use Blender (albeit rendering a lot faster )!

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 9:31:47
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@BigD

Yes it is certainly a lot more fun to mess with non-existing virtual software than with real one
and yes it makes a lot of sense to buy hardware for 2,000 to use blender while you have hardware that is much cheaper and faster than that

BTW you already bought AmigaOS at least for emulation to "show support"?

I have...

If not I do not understand your comments

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 9:41:30
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@BigD

if you read carefully I talked about commercial. Most existing amigans use what people here call "classic", either in emulation or real hardware, many extended with turbo cards or even something like vampire. 68k versions would run everywhere, in best case even direct on MorphOS or AmigaOS. Another advantage... you do not need to replace assembler parts and you can concentrate on the software and create something that is interesting for everyone. If you want it to run native on PPC you have to invest a lot of work in it without many changes. Then you have a PPC version but the 68k version not much differentiates from the existing 68k version so it is not interesting for most potential buyers. And the NG market is too small to finance such projects. Trevor D. wanted to add new users with Tabor but now the hardware collects dust year by year and is getting more and more behind soon being nothing else than a expensive toy hardly useable in todays terms with current software (if those would exist at all). For me concentrating on the retro market would make more sense, NG failed for a number of reasons. Your praising of Hyperion does not really change that, then buy something from them that would make you a lot more credible.

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 9:46:50
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Yes PPC version might be but most users are using classic on one way or another. It is obvious that the market there (AmigaOS) is too small to refinance such developments. And by mainly concentrating on PPC the software is not much interesting for 68k users. I know that Trevor D. wanted to finance software to sell his PPC hardware but that will not work except he is willing to really risk very much money with risk of big losses what he obvious not is. And for other concepts the AmigaOS market is too small.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 01-Feb-2018 at 09:52 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 9:51:45
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@Leo

In my view (others can have different of course) all that we will support Aros, MorphOS and so on only is marketing talk... even on 68k they demand reaction for GUI and the preference (of Trevor D.) for one certain NG platform is obvious. Also it is certainly not easy to develop different platforms because of API differences and all are more or less heading in different directions. I do not believe that there will be ever Aros or Morphos versions.

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terminills 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 11:24:25
#92 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1345
From: Unknown

@Leo

Hrmmm? I'm pretty sure I allowed for a demo release of Final Writer for AROS a year ago. ;)

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terminills 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 1-Feb-2018 11:28:58
#93 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1345
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:


"They" refers to Aladdin 4D and Final Writer.

If the ports take years, I guess there is something wrong. Either it's a too difficult task, or the developer (s) doesn't have enough time or money to work on the port.

In any case I call it a failure. These apps were already outdated the day there were bought so if it takes another 2 to 5 years to get released that becomes antique software...



Final Writer isn't a direct port. There were many licensing issues that needed to be handled as the original licenses weren't transferable. Add that to the bugs in AROS that needed to be fixed in order for it to be a clean port between all the platforms.



Last edited by terminills on 01-Feb-2018 at 11:33 AM.

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wajdy 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 25-Aug-2019 16:16:33
#94 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2006
Posts: 180
From: Amigania

Libre Office : Any update?

Waj

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 25-Aug-2019 19:32:03
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11096
From: Norway

@OlafS25

I think your correct, way wait years to use program you can use today on classic.

Good mentioned programs that are already written in C might take where little time to do, maybe few hours.

A complex program, that is 100% written in assembler can be impossible challenge to rewrite, you as well start over with replica, and that means doing what was done originally from ground up. You need large number of people to pull it off short time period, or you can wait years, to get to same standards as what you originally have.

You need experienced developers who know how to work complicated projects, with Amiga background, where unlikely you find people like that outside of the community.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Aug-2019 at 07:33 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 8:29:42
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Amiga with its own API is very different compared to mainstream development. Because of the lack of modern development environments including class libraries you must have lots of experience in amiga development to get something at all. That limits development to a small number of developers. And to develop for the different flavors you need additional experience on all platforms. So even money would not help right now in my view. First step would be to get modern development environments including cross-platform class libraries. I do not see that anywhere right now. The few developers left are interested in their favorite platform and only program there. I have no problem with it, but because of that I think cross-platform development will not happen very often. And Trevor D. is mainly interested in AmigaOS but in my view it would have made more sense to use the 68k code to develop 68k software with fixed bugs and new features (perhaps optimizing the software that it runs on MorhphOS and AmigaOS). Or write something from scratch. Changing the old sources to run natively on AmigaOS is too much effort without adding anything that makes it interesting for people to use it. That perhaps makes sense with a raytracer or cad software, not in this case or personal paint. Wasted resources... finally sales will not finance it. A new version with lots of new features and improvements that runs on different platforms as 68k binary would have been potentially more successful.

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OlafS25 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 8:41:09
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5495
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

porting software written 100% in asm is not a port but a rewrite. Then better start from scratch that is certainly easier to do. But I assume that many 68k programs include asm routines for certain tasks that all have to be rewritten

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bennymee 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 14:33:18
#98 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 520
From: Netherlands

@OlafS25

What is the base cpu these days, 68060 and a gfx-card for serious software ?

When a programmer does not hit the metal, even assembler from the old days is normally running on all NG systems, for a programmer this would be the most profitable to programm for such a base machine.


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 17:51:32
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11096
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Quote:
But I assume that many 68k programs include asm routines for certain tasks that all have to be rewritten


not necessarily, you can include / embedded a hunk binary blob's into your code and then relocated all offset, using routines I have here:

https://github.com/khval/AmosKittens/blob/master/OS/AmigaOS/readhunk.cpp
(Actually the code does not relocate the code, but it can read the relocation table.)

After you done that you call Petunia on the 680x0 code. But I guess if 680x0 it where likely coded for planar graphics, if does use the hardware blitter to clear or copy data, it might work, you need to know what data the routine expects and what you get out of the routine, so in other words you need a good understand of what that routine does. Where likely by the time you understand what it does, you might as well rewrite it in C/C++ code.

I think bgui, and reqtools.library, (and ARexx host) where only available as 680x0, of course this libs works on AmigaOS4.1, I like bgui but it made before people had need for scalable fonts. And of cause bgui windows are not scalable.

You might also move all dirty parts into a .libraries and by so doing so have common hunk program file that work on MorphOS, AmigaOS4.1 and Classic Amiga, with different libs that take care integration with native API's (or hardware, or CPU extensions like altivec)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:34 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:24 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 05:52 PM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: What is the Status of OCTAMED OS4 and Libre Office?
Posted on 31-Aug-2019 9:08:50
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2129
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

Re:OctaMED

If you want a boost on player code, DigiBooster 3's player code has been rewritten in C already and can be downloaded from its github page. Personally, I think a converter to DigiBooster would be a better idea anyway since there's not enough market-space to give a share of the Amiga market to both.

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