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      /  Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
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Hypex 
Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 22-Jun-2016 15:29:34
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

Hello.

My title may be slighly vague. I was at my computer club the other day. I brought my X1000 and through an Ethernet-to-wireless repeater dongle connected to a public library wifi network I got it online. I decided to download some games from OS4Depot so went through the action list and also some of the bigger ones. I was using IBrowse.

At first I didn't notice any speed to talk about. But then when I was downloading some larger files, about 40MB, I noticed the speed meter was averaging 500KB/s up to 900KB/s! What!? Now this made me happy as well as annoyed. I was happy to see a nifty speed but I also annoyed because I get nothing like that at home!

At home from the Depot I've never seen it go over 200KB/s. I just tested Odyssey, decent size, and it didn't max out my internet. What the hell? Why is it so slow at home?

My speed at home is about 12Mb so it can certainly give me 1MB/s when maxxed out. In fact I've tested IBrowse and it can get up to that speed. As well as the old Transmission. Downloading a Linux ISO is the fastest thing I've found. So why am I not seeing these speeds at home? Looking at it this way. At home my AmigaOne is connected directly to my router with Ethernet cable. At the club my X1000 was going from Ethernet to a wireless device, that is not designed to act as an Ethernet wireless internet adaptor, connected to a local wireless network.

As you can see this doesn't make sense. Is it that the other internet is connected to faster infrastructure over the country cable links? Because I also see this happening in other places.

For example AmiUpdate. It doesn't provide you with a speed meter, which annoys me also, because I like to know all the tech specs of what is going on. Yes I prefer a CD player with a clock counter. But I've noticed, it always tends to start off slow then the speed increases towards the end. Strange. But overall it always seems slow. A friend on 100Mb cable wanted to know why it was so slow when he was paying for fast cable. Haha.

What speeds do you get guys? Do Amiga downloads max you out? Or are they lame like the average internet download using 10% of you max speed?

I thought it may be because Amiga guys can't afford the fastest servers, which would be understandable, but when I saw the speeds at the club I put that idea away because 500-900KB/s is amazingly fast for an Amiga software download!

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Rob 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 22-Jun-2016 16:51:42
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5959
From: S.Wales

@Hypex

I just downloaded Blender and then FFmpeg from OS4 depot using iBrowse and the download speed tops out around 1.8MB/s.

Using the OOKLA speed test in Sysmon I'm consistently getting over 50Mbit/s (6.6MB/s) from a server 16km away. I had the NetDock docky popup open while I ran the tests and it topped out at over 10MB/s.

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Severin 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 22-Jun-2016 17:24:49
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Hypex

Several things make a difference.

1. distance to your local exchange.
2. quality/age of the cable from the exchange to you.
3. number of users sharing the router at the isp.
4. number of users sharing the router at the exchange.
5. quality/age of your ethernet cables
6. number of downloads you do at once.

Here doing a single download (blender from os4depot) I get around 2.1 MB/s, doing 3 (blender, aiss & ffmpeg) I get around 4.8 MB/s.

edit:

Run samplenetspeed or netspeedometer, both will keep a record on the max speed reached. I ran both and did some big downloads (tremulous, smokingguns & cube) and got 4913 KB/s in netspeedometer and 4,821,270 B/s in samplenetspeed.

Last edited by Severin on 22-Jun-2016 at 05:37 PM.

_________________
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Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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Signal 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 22-Jun-2016 19:50:30
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@Hypex

You must also take into account the expanding Amiga universe. The older the software, the more streached out the data gets because it is coming from more years ago, which means fewer B/sec.

It's kind of like Red Shift.

Hope this helped.

_________________
Tinkering with computers.

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Xenic 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 22-Jun-2016 22:42:54
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1245
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Hypex
I don't know about Australia Internet but with Comcast in the U.S. there are various various Internet plans and the more expensive the plan the more speed you get. If the same is true in Australia then I would guess that the library has a higher speed connection than you do at home.

My D/L test speed (at testmy.net) with Odyssey is 3.2 Mbps (413 KBps) and 2.5 Mbps (316 KBps) with RA-OWB. Neither IBrowse or NetSurf will work at that test site. However, my download speeds vary widely at OS4Depot.

EDIT: The speed abbreviations can be confusing (small b is bits, capital B is bytes).
Mbps is megabits per second
MBps is megabytes per second
KBps is kilobytes per second
etc.

Last edited by Xenic on 22-Jun-2016 at 10:50 PM.

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Belxjander 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 23-Jun-2016 4:16:23
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@Hypex

Various routes for the different access points....

As you have already seen, each access point has a basic speed (provider detail)
And as mentioned, server rate of spitting data packets at you...

But if the route is stuffed with a low-throughput pipe for any section...

Think of data in the network like water...

There are thin(low speed) and fat(high speed) pipes.

It doesn't matter how fast the ends are if a thin piece is in the middle.

And personal experiences,

Australia (net cafes)
Average of 1-2MB/minute on a business link.

New Zealand, ( Fibre + DSL + DialUp)

Telstra(Fibre). Downloading Aminet (Whole site clone) over ftp used 3-4GB of 10GB/month over 3-4 days

Best speed seen using an A4000/040 was about 1.72MB roughly for short bursts,
Average was more ~960KB as a sustained rate.

Ihug / Slingshot / ... (DSL)
Varied between 500~600KB sustained and best was ~1.1MB in a burst.

DialUp was more preferable than DSL for consistent connectivity compared to DSL,
Cable just rocked over everything else.

Japan (current),
Cable (NTT West/NTT East) provided 10Mb Ethernet wall plugs off fibre to the house.
Recently upgraded to 100Mb Ethernet at the wall.

VDSL (Jupiter Communications, as behind AU by KDDI for cellphones,
same company group and top 3 provider with Soft bank(Vodafone) and NTT DoCoMo )

Roughly on par with each other,

Between 1MB-2MB/s initial bursts... Easily ranging 100Kb/s download rates sustained (multiple concurrent same speed)
Total sustained rate is closer to 1MB/minute.

My Japanese numbers are definitely not accurate as I have
Desktop - wired - gateway >> wireless

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OneTimer1 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 23-Jun-2016 6:17:16
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 609
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Speed differs because you are not alone on the internet.

I you want to do some usable benchmarks you should set up your own server in your own Lan.

And you should do do different benchmarks, using http, ftp or smb transferring large files and a bunch of small files.

And maybe you should do it for different MTUs ...

And it gets more complicated if you are using Wifi with a lot of neighbours doing the same.

And burst rates, displayed by a browser are worthless, over all time measurements using a script are reliable.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 23-Jun-2016 at 06:19 AM.

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Deniil715 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 23-Jun-2016 7:25:07
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4193
From: Sweden

@Hypex

Odyssey isn't the fastest option for downloading files. Guess it has to do with the buffering.

Quote:
But I've noticed, it always tends to start off slow then the speed increases towards the end. Strange.


That's normal, that's how TCP works.
At first the server sends a few packets (let's say 5 packets), then it waits for the client (your Amiga) to reply with an ACK for each packets.
If it gets all the ACKs, TCP on the server will double the "window size" and send 10 new packets, then waits for 10 ACKs.
If it gets all ACKs, it doubles again and sends 20 packets at once. It will do this until someone is congested and starts to loose packets, typically your modem which has a speed limit.
TCP on the server will notice this by not receiving ACK for all packages. It will then halve the window size and resend the last batch from the last valid ACK. This is where you see the first peak speed.
If the server still doesn't get all the ACKs, it will halve the window size again and resend.
Now it got all ACKs and will now start to increase the window size (the number of packets per batch) just a little every time until packets are lost on the way again, then it halves the window size again.
And it continues like this.
This is why TCP speed is never constant but always fluctuating.
Sometime with bad configuration or unfortunate combinations of hardware you can see pumping with short peek speed and then nothing.

A big buffer in the receiving program and fast handling of the data makes the probability lower that packets will be lost in the client machine. IBrowse is probably better at this.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 14:56:37
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Rob

Tonight I find there is something wrong with my connection. And it happened the other night. I can't over 50 KB/s from NetSpeedometer. Couple days ago was getting 2 KB/s. My modem is connected at 12 Mbps. Not as good as your 50 but something is wrong here. My upload speed is always good when I have these problems.

Anyway where did you get SysMon and NetDock? They've been deleted from OS4Depot and didn't see any other OS4 software links.

Also OOKLA? Amiga can do that? That's pretty good!

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:12:08
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Severin

So on a good day, if my cable set up is good, since I can get 1 MB/s even when downloading a torrent on the laptop over wifi, the lag could be due to congestion upstream? That somehow allows a good seedy torrent to blitz down the line but casues a lag with an Amiga site like OS4Depot.net? I find this annoying because I have always found any Amiga site to be slow.

Since I have a new problem with my speed it seems I might need a new modem. ADSL2 has always given me problems. I never had so many drop outs with version 1 but version 2 is so picky and unreliable!

And my ISP claims I downloaded 300MB since midnight yesterday. And over 1 GB last few days with basic email and soem browsing. At barely 30 KB/s? They've gotta be kidding!

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:14:15
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Signal

LOL!

It certainly isn't red lining. That's just a silhouette.

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:29:21
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Xenic

We used to pay more for more speed but since ADSL2 standardised here there has been a shift to paying more for more data or getting an unlimited plan. But the speed is the same. Max the copper can handle. I'm on a "limited" plan.

Regarding the library connection, I'd certainly say the library isn't better than home, but equal to it. The speed I got off the library wifi is the max speed I have got at home. Which is why I don't understand it.

I need to set up my X1000 again. Still in the box. Pain to put it back under the desk. Someone wanted to see it so got it out. I just need to recreate what I did at the club. Use my X1000 over the Ethernet to wifi contraption and hope it matches the speed!

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:33:11
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Belxjander

Your A4000 has a huge speed! What network card?

And your 100Mb rocks.

My ISP offers a new apartment deal for 50Mb up to 100Mb over copper wire. I don't know how that works. But I wised I lived in that apartment.

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Rob 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:34:54
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5959
From: S.Wales

@Hypex

I bought zTools from Amistore.

I doubt the OOKLA web interface interface would work since it appears to be flash based.

On the PC I consistently get over 72Mbit/s from the nearest server but the Amiga test gives inconsistent scores and they are much lower. The higher figures in the Netdock popup gives the impression that bypassing the web interface result in the Amiga benchmark is inaccurate.

My line is only supposed to be 70Mbit/s so it good to see a higher speed that my service provider claims.

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 15:37:00
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OneTimer1

That will require some time. Especially now my net has gone buggy and slow. I need to find another modem to test.

Over LAN I never get great speed. Just last night I FTP'd from Mac to Windows over wifi. Average 300 KB/s down to 150/KB/s. I started using SMB but it was dog slow so gave up.

Anyway will start by recreating the setup I had at the club.

Last edited by Hypex on 24-Jun-2016 at 03:37 PM.

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Xenic 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 17:31:30
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1245
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Hypex
I noticed that you asked about availability of other network speed programs. I'm using C:SampleNetSpeed in a small window below my browser window. Since it's a RoadShow utility, I think it's probably as accurate as I can get. I use a command like this to start it:

C:SampleNetSpeed LEFT 0 TOP 768 HEIGHT 256 WIDTH 448 SCREEN MyNetwork

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

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Severin 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 24-Jun-2016 17:37:01
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@Severin

So on a good day, if my cable set up is good, since I can get 1 MB/s even when downloading a torrent on the laptop over wifi, the lag could be due to congestion upstream? That somehow allows a good seedy torrent to blitz down the line but casues a lag with an Amiga site like OS4Depot.net? I find this annoying because I have always found any Amiga site to be slow.


ok, torrents come from everywhere, the closer seeders reply quickest so are used whereas the amiga sites are mostly coming from Europe or North America so more chance for congestion. Add Streaming video into the equation, kids sat at home on their tablets, parents on smart tv's etc. it all slows the entire network down.

Quote:
And my ISP claims I downloaded 300MB since midnight yesterday. And over 1 GB last few days with basic email and soem browsing. At barely 30 KB/s? They've gotta be kidding!


Check your router logs / wifi connection history, it sounds like someone has hacked your wifi and DON'T leave torrents seeding, uploaded data is added to downloaded so they can charge you more. Seeding might slow the amiga connection down too as it waits in the queue to send it's request packets.

_________________
OS4 Rocks
X1000 beta tester, Sam440 Flex (733)

Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 12:55:49
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11489
From: Norway

@Hypex

Maybe your sharing your internet with your Nabors, increases encryption, hide network name, and don't forget to upgrade to fiber network.

_________________
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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:56:15
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Deniil715

Thanks for your explanation. I've only noticed this with AmiUpdate. Other programs with their progress bars must hide it better.

It reminds me of the HTTP file loader I wrote once in ARexx for whatever reason that was. I recall I wrote some article for my club and think I was writing about ways to auto virus check a downloaded file or run an installer that worked like a package manager. And this was in the 68K Amiga days. Even OS4 hasn't caught up with my ideas yet.

Anyway what I found was that if I used a large transfer size or tried to load the whole HTTP file in at once it didn't work very well and the speed suffered. I was using the TCP handler (from Miami IIRC) so wondered why it didn't manage a "max transfer" internally. In any case after experiementing I found a block size of 4096 to be best.

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Hypex 
Re: Why does speed differ when downloading Amiga content?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 16:11:51
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10092
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Rob

That's a good connection. Jealous much? Yes.

I was testing the OOKLA speed test on a PC laptop I was given or at least I thought I had once but noticed this message "flashed" past about not having Flash then disappeared. And it went to some beta site which didn't work at all. The test button acted like an Amiga browser and stood there doing nothing making me look stupid. I installed FireFox so put it down to a site bug and that if a PC with the latest browser cannot run it the Amiga has no hope.

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