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      /  A blast back 16years
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gregthecanuck 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 0:29:27
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

BigD wrote:
Quote:

I think the issue is however great the Vampire is as a concept, it is always going to be a well.. "blood sucker" in respect to stealing Tabor or X5000 sales. The more people continue to cling to 68k 'Classic' systems (I'm guilty of that too) the less money in the pot for AmigaOne systems. It's simple economics. There comes a point when the AmigaONE platform is unviable and let's hope the Vampire 68k resurgence doesn't push the number of NG users below that point!

I couldn't disagree more. The emergence of the Vampire (and of course the "X" PPC series) are all attracting users back into the Amiga ecosystem. Even better there will be users checking out the "other side".

There isn't really any price competition that I can see.

This benefits the dealer channel (more systems to sell) and also software developers (more users to target). Heck even A-EON has 68K software - they will profit from more 68K systems as well.

New Tabor systems? Cool... bring 'em on!!
New Vampire systems? Cool... bring 'em on!!

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paolone 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 8:10:04
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1104
From: Unknown

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:
However, there's a different side to the story. Having several different Amiga platforms increases exposure. The Linux/Open Source enthusiast might stumble upon AROS. A Mac user trying to figure out what to do with his old G4 discovers MorphOS. Someone just feels nostalgic after a few glasses of wine and wants to relive their childhood memories, so they pick up Amiga Forever. Then there's the Vampire and other classic hardware for the "purist", and the A-Eon hardware I guess for those who want to run AmigaOS on new hardware.

The real problem is probably the rivalry between the different platforms. How can a synergy effect be achieved, rather than the current "clan wars"? Would it really be out of the question for a Vampire owner to also pick up Tabor, or put together an AROS system from old PC parts etc.?


Thanks for hitting the point. If only everyone had this mindset, instead of "I choose my Amiga way and I will help my own way to destroy the others", we'd be in a completely different and wiser situation.

Reading that Vampire "could not come in a worse moment", just because they would "drain blood" from already scarce AmigaOne resources is exactly no different than having read the same crap long ago about AROS over AmigaOS, or about MorphOS. Reality is there are too much negative people here, defending their little garden of flowers from any kind of different cultivation in the neighborhood.

Back to your question, it would be just wise if players decided to share a common set of technologies (MUI for all systems, for instance), like Hollywood is doing, and provide the necessary tools to semplify development and porting of applications to all different platforms (like AROS is doing, but extending the concept to AmigaOS and MorphOS), and all Amiga flavours might live side-by-side with no issue. Instead, I coud just see a chess tournament where users, developers and technologies are just the pieces being eaten and thrown away, year by year.


Last edited by paolone on 19-Oct-2017 at 08:12 AM.
Last edited by paolone on 19-Oct-2017 at 08:10 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 15:07:20
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10356
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
We are in a precarious position and as far as A-EON is concerned I bet the Vampire couldn't have arrived at a worse time unless it was a week before the X1000 release!


I don't think it matters either way. To borrow the binary joke. There is One type of Amigan in the world. Those who know what an AmigaOne is and those who don't care.

There are Amiga people and AmigaOne people. The Amiga people never got past the real Amiga and they want to stay there and don't acknowledge any development post Commodore or 68K. They stick to the past and think the Amiga should stay there was well.

The AmigaOne people wanted the Amiga to go on. But all we got was an AmigaOne and no T-shirt. But the AmigaOne allowed other Amiga people to go into the present and continue the Amiga into the future. Giving them a somewhat modern Amiga experience.

My point is they are for different markets. The AmigaOne models are not cheap. Well not any more. But at the same time the Vampire isn't cheap either. Maybe not as expensive but it relies on already having an old computer that is expensive to replace. Yes it's for existing Amiga owners. At least the AmigaOne can use new cheap off the shelf parts.

So I don't think the Vampire will really affect AmigaOne sales. Mind you, testing has proven even a cheap ARM board can emulate an Amiga with similar power to a Vampire. And a ten year old PC can emulate OS4 with similar speed to a real CyberStorm PPC. So the expense will work against it. Both of them.

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Beans 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 15:13:10
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Hypex

NO...I am an Amigan, and my primary machine of choice is a Mac (until the AmigOne X5000/40 becomes available).

I use Amiga OS 3.1-3.9 and MorphOS, and I own an Amiga 2000 and a CD32 (and one day hope to add an A1200 and an A4000 to those).
One day (once I buy the X5000) I'll be using OS4.1 as well.
And remember that is called AmigaOS 4, NOT AmigaOne OS.

So, legacy fanatics? Get a grip, some of us embrace ALL of this, and its ALL Amiga.

Don't like it? Tough Shite.

Last edited by Beans on 19-Oct-2017 at 03:14 PM.
Last edited by Beans on 19-Oct-2017 at 03:13 PM.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

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Srtest 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 15:33:15
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 258
From: Israel, Haderah

@Beans

I thought you said on another forum that you're not an amigan, you're a morph user because amigans are mental.

My approach to this debate is get both or neither!

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Beans 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 19-Oct-2017 16:00:47
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Srtest

From a MorphOS perspective, that might be a fair statement....except I'm as mental as the next guy here.
The majority of the MorphOS community is rational (well, most of them, anyway). I'm just crazy enough to be considering using ALL NG OS', and well as our legacy OS'.

And my friend 'AmigaDave' Morris will be at AmiWest 2017 tomorrow. David has an X1000, AND he's a MorphOS advocate.

So I guess I'll have to retract my previous statement.

I've been in contact with Trevor Dickinson since the X1000 was announced, I'd been in contact with Paul Gentle before that, I routinely exchange messages with a couple of MorphOS developers, and even though there is more than a little residual friction between blue and red camps...
I exchanged a few messages with Ben Hermans this year.

I've even tried to contact a couple of expatriot MorphOS developers recently.

And I forgot to mention I also exchange the occasional message with AROS developer Staf 'Fats' Verhagen (at least to acknowledge his birthday each year).

SO, I guess I was talking out my ass when denying my status, as I pretty much straddle everything.
I've even exchanged messages with Gunnar Von Boehm in the past to discuss cross platform development.

So, you all can cling to whatever 'camp' you feel an affinity toward.

I'll just stick with the idea of the 'Amiga Community' from now on.

Last edited by Beans on 19-Oct-2017 at 04:01 PM.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

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Hypex 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 27-Oct-2017 16:20:44
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10356
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Beans

Quote:
NO...I am an Amigan, and my primary machine of choice is a Mac (until the AmigOne X5000/40 becomes available).


Which is funny as a Mac isn't an Amiga. My secondary machine of choice is a PowerBook. Which lately has been supplanted by a Linux x86 laptop.

Quote:
I use Amiga OS 3.1-3.9 and MorphOS, and I own an Amiga 2000 and a CD32 (and one day hope to add an A1200 and an A4000 to those).


I use AmigaOS 3.9 on my A1200 (when it works), A4000 and have tested MorphOS on my PowerBook.

Quote:
One day (once I buy the X5000) I'll be using OS4.1 as well.
And remember that is called AmigaOS 4, NOT AmigaOne OS..


It might as well be, any AmigaOne is the only decent way to run AmigaOS4.

Quote:
So, legacy fanatics? Get a grip, some of us embrace ALL of this, and its ALL Amiga.


LOL. I too am a "hybrid" user. Since I also own a couple of AmigaOne machines. And am considering the Tabor.

But, WRT to "legacy fanatics" I have found that there are a few in the Amiga community. Mostly in the Facebook groups. They don't accept anything post Commodore. For them there is a clear divide. And anything that is not an Amiga, be that AmigaOne or otherwise is considered heretical. Seriously. I thought I was strict by placing a difference between Amiga and AmigaOne, because technically there is, but there are people detest Amiga being in the AmigaOne name.

Quote:
Don't like it? Tough Shite.


Ha!

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 29-Oct-2017 9:10:24
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 407
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
Mind you, testing has proven even a cheap ARM board can emulate an Amiga with similar power to a Vampire.


cheap ARM board can run amiga 68k software many times faster than Vampire.

Quote:

And a ten year old PC can emulate OS4 with similar speed to a real CyberStorm PPC. So the expense will work against it. Both of them.


I have core2quad q6600 from 2008, and uae is is still little slower than CyberStorm PPC.
Uae also has not 3d support.

ppc emulation in uae is few times slower than 68k.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 29-Oct-2017 9:15:45
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 407
From: Unknown

@Hypex

My opinion about legacy fanatics is they are annoying idiots.
Amiga hardware was good as long as one use images with less than 8 bit per pixel.
Graphics with at least 8 bit per pixel was always better to do with cpu.
Since 1992 when c= stop production of 68000 amigas, all amigas no matter who they made, have cpu faster than chipset, it is dumb to use chipset in new software.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 29-Oct-2017 9:34:59
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 407
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Out community has cheap, fast and compatible x86 solution since year 2000.
It is uae with JIT.
In 2001 even WinUAE has JIT.
Comparing 2017 to 2001 there is no progress in 68k and x86.
In 2001 WinUAE on inexpensive pc run 68k software faster than vampire today and in more comfortable way.
In 2001 WinUAE on inexpensive pc was better than aros because only litte slower but fully compatible.
Nothing changes in 68k and x86 on amiga side from 2001 to 2017 - WinUAE was and is better solution than "real" 68k and aros.
Progress was only in ppc - in 2001 there was no NG, now we have something what gunnar von boehn announce but never deliver - Amigas NG are faster than uae.




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g01df1sh 
Re: A blast back 16years
Posted on 29-Oct-2017 9:57:00
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1745
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

I don't agree I will be getting A1222 and standalone vampire . So no vampire will not hurt Ng sales

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

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