@paolone
Quote:

Quote: "adversed" -> "opposed" I think yes, sorry

No problem; I understood what you meant but I figured others would be left scratching their heads. It was a translation for others.

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@wawa

Quote:

Quote: Quote: Yep, and no, not everyone wants a Posix library. call it ixemul if you will, no matter.

+1 to an updated ixemul. An entire world of high-quality open source suddenly becomes much easier to port. Turns out one is maintained at least for AmigaOS, so who knows...

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@paolone

I think they do not understand what hosted means or do think because of Aeros (what is mixing Linux and Aros) Aros is Linux. Or they simply not care and search for a reason not to use Aros

@paolone

Quote:

So please enlighten me once forever: what do AROS and LINUX have in common, exactly, that AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS haven't?

I don't know if this is a common thought but I will share my thoughts on the matter. Which on the surface may look like accusation by association. When I have booted AROS, be that the base system, or though icAROS, the first impression is a customised GRUB boot loader. Popular Linux distros use GRUB. So it can look like another Linux before booting in that regard.

Apart from that there is the installation where boot partition and code and must be embedded in a FAT partition. But that's more of a PC thing than Linux thing. I suppose GUID can be used now even if an RDB can't be written directly to disk.

AmigaOne machines don't have a GRUB like boot loader. Except when they are actually booting Linux. But it is obvious they have a custom setup.

@Hypex

OK, so GRUB shouldn't be used because that makes AROS Linuxish, but can you explain me the "embedded FAT partition" thing? This is how my AROS VM partition table looks like, there are not FAT partitions anywhere:
https://imgur.com/a/TyVnA

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@BSzili

I suppose he means the EFI system partition used on newer PC hardware.

Last edited by kolla on 11-Apr-2018 at 06:54 PM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Hypex

Quote:

Apart from that there is the installation where boot partition and code and must be embedded in a FAT partition.

Are you thinking of Linux on Raspberry Pi, maybe?

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Hypex

Quote:

I don't know if this is a common thought but I will share my thoughts on the matter. Which on the surface may look like accusation by association. When I have booted AROS, be that the base system, or though icAROS, the first impression is a customised GRUB boot loader. Popular Linux distros use GRUB. So it can look like another Linux before booting in that regard. AmigaOne machines don't have a GRUB like boot loader. Except when they are actually booting Linux. But it is obvious they have a custom setup.

So are you telling me Amiga users are so illiterate about computing, that they can't even understand the difference between a bootloader and a kernel? Did I really loose so much time of my life arguing with totally clueless people?

Well. AROS is Linux because both use the same bootloader. So Amiga, PCs and AmigaOnes are the exact same thing because they all have a space bar.

@kolla

Maybe he meant MBR instead of FAT, but is this something a regular user sees and thinks it's Linuxish? You could make a same argument about GPT, which is also supported by Linux.

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@Hypex

Quote:

I don't know if this is a common thought but I will share my thoughts on the matter. Which on the surface may look like accusation by association. When I have booted AROS, be that the base system, or though icAROS, the first impression is a customised GRUB boot loader. Popular Linux distros use GRUB. So it can look like another Linux before booting in that regard.

Uh, let us look at it from another perspective. Popular linux distros support PCI devices plugged in. All AmigaOne series have PCI slots. That makes AmigaOS running on X1000, X5000 or whatever else very linux-ish?

Or, if I would like to be sarcastic, I would tell AmigaOS4 actually *is* just like linux because it has shared objects (.so files). Happy? ;)

Quote:

AmigaOne machines don't have a GRUB like boot loader. Except when they are actually booting Linux. But it is obvious they have a custom setup.

AmigaOS4 boots from either CFE or UBoot. None of these comes from Amiga world, UBoot is used a lot on embedded systems of different architectures. Very often UBoot is used to boot linux. That makes AmigaOS4 more linux-ish than AROS. There are only very few customisations in UBoot for AmigaOS, compared to entire UBoot code base.

How ironic, parts of UBoot come from Linux either directly or in indirect way. Would you like to have AmigaOS done properly (without this awful 3rd party software parts), then you would have it embedded on the mainboard directly, just as it was the case with pre 4.0 Kickstarts.

Last edited by michalsc on 11-Apr-2018 at 09:38 PM.

@Hypex

Quote:

AmigaOne machines don't have a GRUB like boot loader. Except when they are actually booting Linux.

PS. Where do you have GRUB like boot loader on AmigaOne? Have I missed something? I hope you don't mean Parthenope, do you?

@paolone

really loose so much time of my life arguing with totally clueless people?

Yes you did...

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@michalsc

I guess UBoot doesn't bother people, because they don't see it during a regular boot. Take note AROS distro makers, you only need to hide the GRUB menu, and "Linux-like" is no more

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I think the Amiga is best described as a concept. When it first appeared it was a groundbreaking glimpse into the future of personal computing.

These days it's difficult to pin down because every feature it introduced is completely mainstream now. In 1985, a multitasking multimedia machine (the term didn't even exist then) that did office tasks, played arcade quality games, allowed the creation of music and video was all brand new.

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@Karlos

The difference is that even in 1985 it opened up this new concept in a fun, accessible and logical way. Exploring AmigaOS, and what the hardware could do was fun! You could understand the way the operating system worked if you wanted and it felt like a tool hence it had a Workbench!

Configuring Macs and PCs for constructive use is a pain. The Amiga hardware was flakey at times when you added extra accelerators and bit and bobs but the perserverance was part of the fun. I spent the whole of last Saturday configuring a Buetooth Dongle to use a PlayStation 3 gamepad and the process made no sense. All modern OSes fight you trying to install drivers that aren't part of the Apple / Microsoft authenticated ecosystem. Heck you can't even configure the look of macOS without disabling System Integrity Protection! How like Tron's Master Control Program does that sound?

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

Now I've just figured I need another third party hack to get the MacBook's headphone audio to work correctly after sleep and wake up!! Progress? I don't think so

http://www.dognmonkey.com/techs/how-to-fix-no-audio-and-mic-after-wake-on-mac-os-x.html

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Karlos

Quote:

I think the Amiga is best described as a concept. When it first appeared it was a groundbreaking glimpse into the future of personal computing. These days it's difficult to pin down because every feature it introduced is completely mainstream now. In 1985, a multitasking multimedia machine (the term didn't even exist then) that did office tasks, played arcade quality games, allowed the creation of music and video was all brand new.

Yes, I agree with this.

Back in 1985 all computers were simple because technology had not yet advanced to the point where it was possible to make them complex. But only Amiga was capable, which made it unique.

Nowadays all computers are capable, even our phones, but they are all complex as well, which causes a lot of problems and aggravation. So in my thinking the Amiga concept is to simplify a system as much as possible while retaining its capabilities.

This is why I advocate starting with an existing system such as Linux and working top-down, starting with the UI, and "Amigafying" it. This way the project always has a working system with apps, which makes it possible to attract users to the system while it is being developed.

Or to put it another way, this is close to the standard Linux distro development process with one important difference: each release works on improving the system instead of piling additional layers of software on top of it.

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@bison

Not true, main frames multitask like crazy, trying to keep up with the demand.
back then you had dumb terminals, you had to connect the main frames.

AmigaOS is descendant of TripOS. (Terminals and all the commands are the same)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Apr-2018 at 05:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Apr-2018 at 05:01 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Not true, main frames multitask like crazy, trying to keep up with the demand.

Sorry, but I'm not following you at all -- what do mainframes have to do with anything I said?

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

To me if it allows me to run most of my AOS 1.x, 2.x or 3.x software, even just the OS legal ones, then it's an Amiga now.

Without a solid base of my classic 68k applications, it's just another possibly interesting new platform, but not an Amiga.

Sure, I want more and faster, but not without that link to the past.

MorphOS is. I can't speak for OS4, I haven't got the hardware, but I assume it's similar.

Amithlon is.

Linux by itself is not, but UAE on Linux (or other OS) is.

AROS is getting there, but doesn't pay enough attention to 68k for my tastes, at least the last time I tried it.

In a whole other sense BeOS and Haiku almost are Amiga. BeOS seemed like something AOS might have ideally grown into over time. Tragically it suffered a similar fate.