@deadduckni

@AmigaKit

AmigaKit, yes what @deadduckni says.

I am speaking of the core OS as sold with the X5K, not the enhancer or other goodies we can buy.

And yes, I enjoy the enhancers.

TJ

Last edited by amigasociety on 18-Mar-2019 at 08:48 PM.

@deadduckni

What is the "official" OS? OS4.1 does not even contain a modern graphics driver, A-EON own both the ATIRadeon and RadeonHD drivers as well as MediaToolbox and various other components.

The RadeonHD and RadeonRX drivers are integral parts of the Enhancer Software. You cannot use the system without the Enhancer Software components being installed.

We we are selling the X5000 system as a complete product.

Therefore to ensure our customers have the best experience from the system we are the vendor of, we must make sure we keep updating the system software. An example of this is when we added the X5000 ethernet driver to the latest version of the Enhancer Software so we can fulfill our customers needs.

So in many respects it does not matter that the last version of 4.1, "Final Edition" was released back in 2014- our customers are buying a system with the Enhancer Software that is actively supported and developed.

@amigasociety

The Enhancer Software is sold with the X5000, it is an integral part of the product. It cannot operate without it (for e.g. ethernet driver, 2D graphics driver, 3D system)

Quote:

not the enhancer or other goodies we can buy.

The Enhancer Software is not "goodies", it is mandatory to use the X5000.

Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 08:53 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 08:51 PM.

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@amigakit

Like @AmigaSociety, I really appreciate the work that A-EON and others do to keep this up to date and functional, but my X5000 still says "Pre-Release" when I boot up...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the X5000, and I really enjoy some of the enhancer pack tools, and certainly the drivers, but having updates to Core OS 4.1 would be nice, as would a new ISO that is complete, and with the removal of the "pre-release" message.

Just simple things... and I know this is a hobby computer... but still....

-Slygon

@amigakit

Quote:

amigakit wrote: Quote: not the enhancer or other goodies we can buy. The Enhancer Software is not "goodies", it is mandatory to use the X5000.

Would you prefer I call these nice enhancer apps "baddies" then?

Goodies is not a term I used to put your software down... is my way of saying they are good!

Do you not see that?

I don't think any place in my original posts I mention enhancer or any of the things AmigaKit have/are doing in negative terms.

My original post was about what I feel the "core" os that gets the X5K booting and running. I know there are some things that AmigaKit have added in the past to make our X5K better but that does not mean the underbelly of it all should cease to be updated too, and if there are updates, would be nice to all to see them if possible.

TJ

Last edited by amigasociety on 18-Mar-2019 at 09:09 PM.
Last edited by amigasociety on 18-Mar-2019 at 09:07 PM.

@amigakit

I am 100% behind you with your reminders about what constitutes a usable OS4.1 system in 2019. Without A-Eons input, I would have abandoned the platform long ago.
Outwardly, there is one official owner of AmigaOS - Hyperion. They are undoubtedly absentee landlords. Until they wither, quit or are bought out, how can the official picture change?

@deadduckni

Quote:

deadduckni wrote: @amigakit I am 100% behind you with your reminders about what constitutes a usable OS4.1 system in 2019. Without A-Eons input, I would have abandoned the platform long ago.

Yeh and without what A-Eon did... I would have never started using Amiga this late in the game, 2010. I mean, I am a damn Atari guy.

In that time I have purchased an X1K, X5K, Tabor, and all sorts of other "goodies" from AmigaKit.

I have spent a ton of money on this platform.

In the end, Amiga companies will only rise to the best they can be when their customers are treated well and listened too.

TJ

@Mattew

Or you buy Hyperion with everything connected (company, name, servers, source code, developers, beta-testers, their dogs) , or it will be always Hyperion is made official OS and AEON extend it.

And OS its not only graphics driver and kernel of course ! There is also dos, filesystems, console, whole workbench, looooots of classes , 60 or 70 dunno inbuild by defauilt, tons of small tools and utilities, all kind of libraries and stuff.

Rewriting that is unpossible (even one single ListViewer class still don't reach level of ListBrowsers, but it already 2 years since) and releasing something like another os without half of that, also downgrade and unpossible. Everything which come for now by default with OS4, in most cases are well tested for last 10-15 years of amount of users which we will never get again. So rewriting of the same stuff also unpossible (as many of us told all the time)

So the only way its to deal with Costel and Tim normally , or work together without dirty games, or made them happy by paying the summ the will happy to sold everything out :))

Last edited by kas1e on 18-Mar-2019 at 09:33 PM.

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@amigasociety

Quote:

that does not mean the underbelly of it all should cease to be updated too

Don't worry, the Enhancer Software already updates core parts of the OS: the RadeonRM Resource is one example that bypasses the inherent 256MB Graphics Memory hard limit of OS4.1. Another example is the new Sound DT Classes supplied in the Enhancer Software: they completely overwrite the old classes and upgrade them adding new advanced features such as streaming.

The Enhancer Software 2.0 will provide even more substantial upgrades.

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@deadduckni

Nice to hear going on.

Don't know how many XE*s are waiting for the OS. We Really did the start as a customer side.

Bought nearly all but enchancer? 4.2 was to be. Can draw icons myself, That's what Amiga is for and make things.

Recommend an update. VeryWelcome. The Computer is very wellmade after the flaws, cost a lot. Waiting in this land is not so humorous anymore.

Maybe a few NG,s? Sams etc all.

From The Barebones to 4,1.

Please. Release.

Money not needed?

Last edited by PR on 18-Mar-2019 at 09:46 PM.

@deadduckni

Quote:

deadduckni wrote: @amigakit I think TJ is referring to official Hyperion releases...

Of course he did!

This was just "AeonKit" stepping up to the plate.

If you haven't noticed, they have gradually over the last years shouldered more and more of the development of components that could easily be considered as core components of an OS, just like they say in post #99 and #102 (Edit: and #108 ). One Hyperion official has publicly expressed annoyance regarding "AeonKit" dictating the way forward in the GFX area, using exactly the "it's not official" rhetoric's. That was kind of fun! Now it seems Trevor might have even purchased ExecSG, and the "team lead" seems to have been fired by one party for talking to another, while not exactly acting (in the above posts) like his ties are really cut at all. Or maybe his posting style was just out of shock over the change and the shame about the past? Who knows...

But it appears the relationship with AeonKit and the new owner of Amiga is excellent. It's no secret that the new owner of Amiga is primarily interested in what could be called "the Checkmark Branch", while AeonKit has invested heavily in "the Boing Ball Branch". The new owner of Amiga has expressed a clear opinion that both these branches must move forward, and has also a track record of circumventing stalled IP situations with dead publishers like Hype^H^H^H^H Haage&Partner by making parallel contracts directly with the developers really owning the Copyrights. That's how Cloanto managed to create "Workbench 3.X" (X could not only read as variable "x" but also roman number 10, like: 3.10) which essentially is 3.9 with some components in an even later version. However, it seems like Hyperion screwed individual developers over by sneaky and sinister clauses in what should have been NDA contracts that complicates things, but as the new onwer of Amiga says: "It is now emerging that some developers may have "overcommitted" themselves, and are now entangled in contracts they didn't even intend to be bound by and/or that were incompatible with other prior work done for the Amiga companies. That's another matter which will need to be resolved." Given the tone it sounds more like a speed-bump than an obstacle, so maybe there is hope?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 18-Mar-2019 at 10:42 PM.

@amigakit

You need to stop reinventing the wheel & get a new browser going, If you haven't noticed, the net is moving on & Odessey isn't. I would buy the gfx driver, but will never buy the package.

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@amigasociety

Quote:

I have spent a ton of money on this platform. In the end, Amiga companies will only rise to the best they can be when their customers are treated well and listened too.

Thank you for purchasing the X1000 and now the X5000. We are very pleased that you have invested hard earned money in two A-EON flagship products.

At A-EON, we feel that we should keep working hard to provide a great product experience and that includes providing good quality software to give our customers the features they want on our hardware platform. We will continue to do everything we can in our remit to deliver this.

Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 11:05 PM.

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@amigakit

Happy to buy from good companies that try hard to deliver on neat stuff.

I even purchased a SAM 440ep based system from Relec early on, so have spent heavily on supporting all involved.

My dream was that the X5K would have or could have become my day-to-day computer for work, but like @Sundown states, web access has hurt and stop me from doing this.

My hope is that future $$ go into an updated web experience that will allow more of us X5K and X1K and other AmigaOne systems be able to use our systems for much more than just a hobby box.

I would happily pay yearly fee for a company that can put out a web browser that is more capable than we have today and keep updating it. I am fine with paying for updates too.

I have owned my X5K for 2.5 years now and it is used less and less lately. I think a mix of the legal battles we see and less updates, web experience getting worse and worse, just keeps me away from using it more.

The ONE thing that I feel would make our platform better and more used is a better web experience.

TJ

Last edited by amigasociety on 18-Mar-2019 at 11:17 PM.

@amigasociety

We have looked into the modern browser experience and have identified many building blocks that are needed first.

These building blocks are some of the components that we are currently working on in the Enhancer Software development.

Take one area: a modern browser is predicated on having a modern core 2D/3D graphics system. This is not something the basic OS 4.1 is capable of due to it old P96 constraints. The Enhancer Software Graphics system builds an alternative to this. More details will be forthcoming in the version 2.0 release.

Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 11:30 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 18-Mar-2019 at 11:29 PM.

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@sundown

There are several MorphOS projects by very talented developers that AeonKit could opt to support (of which Odyssey is one, Fab should be brought back from his parental leave by force now anyway ) in order to get proper support instead of the various quality "second on the ball" third party ports. Odyssey, the real MUI5+, Poseidon (has been fishing for support-money before), the real Cybergraphics (Jens seems to be claiming P96 for himself now?) which also would open up for other stuff like the CGX mplayer (well worth supporting as well). Not to mention other applications like the new Iris e-mail program, the "Odyssey of e-mail", nothing comparable has ever been seen anywhere in the Amiga universe!

Not saying that any of this would be possible at all, but perhaps worth trying? I of course recognize that these are core and key components of MorphOS, giving it a notable edge compared to the alternatives. But who knows, maybe if MorphOS is migrating beyond the traditional Amiga constraints (64-bit memory and computing, new ISA, SMP, MP, etc) then maybe there would be an opening for the remaining PPC OS to kind of inherent those techs in a traditional Amiga PPC context for the right amount of money? Worth asking?

I think AeonKit is kind of happy about the way the MorphOS team has supported their X5000 hardware, including some recognized work on drivers. Had there been any connections to Hyperion, then I dare to say this would have been completely impossible, but now cooperation doesn't seem impossible per se. But some post-Hyperion OS4 Perestroika would probably be needed and a changed more humble attitude towards the other operating systems in the Amiga eco system in general. And a riddance of all kinds of "Tough luck for the trolls that thought they were getting to me. Nah! Nah!" attitude. There are some past that desperately needs to be cleared out along with Hyperion...

@cap
Quote:

I`ve just start reading David Pleasance`s book. Will you be releasing a similar type insider book once your "nda" runs out. You know it will sell. :)

It has been quite a trip! Let me tell you about the time.... (gag)

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@kas1e
Quote:

Quote: Multicore support is still a priority. Again ?:)) You again repeat that thing which we all know will never happens ? Why you do so ?:) No one works on it, no one will be able to made a multicore support of how casual users hope. Why not say that it all false hopes, and enjoy what you enjoy while there is developers working for free still around ?

Because multicore is still a priority.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@
Maybe about multi core, a solution could be manage extra cpus as coprocessors and not as another cpu. I have always thought the best solution for AmigaOS could be a cell like cpu where spe are coprocessors, just like blitter and others on old Amiga hw.

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@ssolie
Quote:

Because multicore is still a priority.

:)) like there is plan and everyone keep busy ?:) oh common.. Somebody never change , false smokepipe dreams for everyone.

You are developer, you know what mean multicore support in real world, and you know it will not happen EVER.

You still sounds like somebody works on it , but you know its not true, then why you keep saying about priorities ? Why maki g it all looks like lie ? Like there is many developers working hard by skiping other projects in favor of some SMP .. Who works on what ?

Same for 64 bit support, like you didnt know what it mean and even want to make it sounds like it done. Only amiga make it possible !

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@amigakitQuote:

Don't worry, the Enhancer Software already updates core parts of the OS: the RadeonRM Resource is one example that bypasses the inherent 256MB Graphics Memory hard limit of OS4.1. Another example is the new Sound DT Classes supplied in the Enhancer Software: they completely overwrite the old classes and upgrade them adding new advanced features such as streaming. The Enhancer Software 2.0 will provide even more substantial upgrades.

Fine! Now, does the enhancer 2.0 update offer fix for these problems:


a) Totally non-working SCSI driver (kickstart module)

b) Very rudimentary optical drive support

c) Buggy NGFS ?


If not, when are they planned? Hyperion has not been able/willing to publish any updates to fix these problems!


Regards,

Gregor