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      /  Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
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PosterThread
paolone 
Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 9-Oct-2019 8:03:59
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

Well, sort of. While you're waiting for your favourite company to find the mandatory money to hire the needed manpower, please consider helping us with the transition from 32-bit i386 AROS to 64-bit x86-64 one. You can already test current builds of 64-bit Icaros Desktop here:

Icaros 64 v0.0.0 pre-alpha
http://vmwaros.blogspot.com/2019/10/icaros-64-v000-pre-alpha-is-available.html



This pre-alpha version includes current experimental code with all its limitations (please read the warnings carefully) either natively on real/virtual hardware, or hosted on 64-bit Linux. The native mode works only in live mode (no installation available on hard drive), just as a proof of concept and to test current drivers, while the hosted mode is interesting for development purposes. People currently writing software and compiling it for x86-64 are urged to test their binaries on it for compatibility (Icaros 64 pre-alpha is based on current AROS sources).

Here's what you can expect in the current state:
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/p/icaros-64-current-status.html

If you wish to help us on the system, please join the AROS DEV mailing list or find on www.aros.org the way to contact AROS developers.

You can download a pre-built Ubuntu 64 based virtual machine for AROS development here:
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/2019/10/a-pre-configured-development-machine.html

Or instructions about how to build a development environment by yourself:
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/2019/09/setting-up-64bit-linux-development-env.html


A hub page for relevant information about Icaros 64 and its progress is always available here:
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/p/64-bit.html

Last edited by paolone on 09-Oct-2019 at 08:04 AM.

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clusteruk 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 9-Oct-2019 10:38:03
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1525
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@paolone

Just as a heads up, if the next batch of cases sell out I will be launching a £10,000 AROS driver fund split between my company and the community, I already have a lot of promises. I will flesh this out later.

I will also discuss with you my plans for Stage 3 of my project and hopefully some funding for ICAROS moving forward.

Steve

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OneTimer1 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 9-Oct-2019 18:25:05
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 504
From: Unknown

@paolone

[code]
...../ )
.....' /
---' (_____
......... ((__)
..... _ ((___)
....... -'((__)
--.___((_)
[/code]

IMR there was a bounty for the first 64bit AROS distribution.

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 9-Oct-2019 22:00:33
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

Good move.
Hope you get the help needed so at least some important apps. can be ported.

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KimmoK 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 9:56:40
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5156
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

"Icaros 64 will be based on the great experience we got from the 32bit version, but it will bring real advantages like big size memory handling, better filesystems, updated system software and, hopefully in a near future, also multiprocessing support, to speed up multithreaded operations. But, pay attention! ABIv1 64bit AROS can't run ABIv0 32bit software, so all applications must be properly adapted, corrected, recompiled and bundled"

I wish OS devs could finally work together to deliver one/unified/common next/third gen "Amiga" OS.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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asymetrix 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 11:33:44
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 840
From: United Kingdom

@KimmoK

Quote:
ABIv1 64bit AROS can't run ABIv0 32bit software, so all applications must be properly adapted, corrected, recompiled and bundled"


That's why in a sane world, automation is the only way - so in future no one will think back and think what were they thinking .. I now have to manually compile x GB sources by hand.

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bison 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 15:00:53
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@paolone

This does not boot on UEFI systems?

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wawa 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 18:22:18
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6190
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Quote:
That's why in a sane world, automation is the only way - so in future no one will think back and think what were they thinking .. I now have to manually compile x GB sources by hand.


therefore its best in this case to distribute software as sources. aros has a nice build system with which the contributions are easily recompiled for another platform. currently paolo is releasing a ready to go cross compiler environment for linux, but there will be also a docker image, and from my experience it isnt really a problem to set up yourself.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 21:09:47
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Quote:

That's why in a sane world, automation is the only way - so in future no one will think back and think what were they thinking .. I now have to manually compile x GB sources by hand.


The AROS build system provides a metamake system which basically helps automating things. You just need to add your software to the repository and write the 'recipe' to build it, and 1) when AROS sources evolve and ABI changes, you just need to update the AROS sources, reconfigure and make again, and 2) if you wish to compile also for several other architectures, you just need to configure again from a different target directory & make again.

There are ongoing efforts to use docker as well, to target also other amiga-like systems.

Hope this may help.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 21:12:51
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:

I wish OS devs could finally work together to deliver one/unified/common next/third gen "Amiga" OS.


This will unlikely happen but, at least, we're moving the platform forward (or trying to do that). Anyone joining or helping us is really welcome.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 21:14:15
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@bison

Probably it is, probably not. I haven't tried. After all, this is a very unstable experimental alpha software, so I'd be happy it's booting somewhere at all.

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asymetrix 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 10-Oct-2019 23:03:15
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 840
From: United Kingdom

@paolone

Sounds good, one could attempt to use a central header to control pre-processor commands to auto include specific environment functions & default paths

If you need a new architecture, just add it to the main environment header, Its been done on other platforms, I'm sure a code wizard could figure it out for sure.

An automated system could generate html reports for each file success or failure.

Later one could add KS version compliance.

Cloud servers could be used to compile, with a few donations to keep them running.

Keeping source files only truly keeps files portable. This is what makes the Linux system a success.


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bison 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 11-Oct-2019 3:08:20
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@asymetrix

Quote:
one could attempt to use a central header to control pre-processor commands to auto include specific environment functions & default paths If you need a new architecture, just add it to the main environment header

It's probably cleaner to do this from the makefile using the -D switch, which is already being done in at least one instance.

https://github.com/ezrec/AROS-mirror/blob/ABI_V1/AROS/Makefile.in

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kamelito 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 11-Oct-2019 12:48:10
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@paolone

Isn’t AmigaOS a 31bit operating system? You’re saying AROS removed that in it’s design and code?

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wawa 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 11-Oct-2019 17:29:49
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6190
From: Unknown

@kamelito

Quote:
Isn’t AmigaOS a 31bit operating system? You’re saying AROS removed that in it’s design and code?


on other platforms than m68k this isnt a restriction as no binary compatibility is necessary there. it may be that this can be an issue on arm big endian, as binary compatibility is expected there.bur right now seems that michal wants to implement a jit emulator and run there a 68k system anyway.

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wawa 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 11-Oct-2019 17:32:39
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6190
From: Unknown

@bison

aros target platform and other details are being defined at configure time and the flags are being then passed to meta make files.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 11-Oct-2019 18:27:12
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11164
From: Norway

@kamelito

Yes it will break any source code that is deigned to have sizeof(int32)=sizeof(void *), one example of this is AMOS, that use 31 bit integer to store pointer values from VARPTR command, there is lot stuff like that depends on INT32, but I guess, its only problem if integer stays the same, but if the integer is upgraded to signed 64 bit, then I guess it will work again.

its not 31 bit OS, its 32bit, as bytes are 8bit, shorts are 16bit, and ints are normally 32bit, but a 32bit integer can be signed or unsigned. some functions in AmigaOS use signed values to return errors, this limit the amount RAM that can be used, But then again it does limit other functions from return memory above 2GBytes.

It will not be harder to fix then having a MEMF_OVER_31BIT flag or something, when allocating memory. However some memory addresses are not available because they are reserved by zorro bus, or the PCI bus or some, or other chips, memory has share address with all other chips on motherboard. I think the worst part is Zorro slot as does not support memory windows. As most Amiga computers do not have MMU, so there is no memory mapping.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Oct-2019 at 07:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Oct-2019 at 06:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Oct-2019 at 06:29 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 9:45:14
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1319
From: Trondheim, Norway

@asymetrix

Quote:
I now have to manually compile x GB sources by hand.


How do you do that? knitting pins? :)

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 15:09:36
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

MorphOS boots on AMD64 at Amiga34.

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1Mouse 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 20:09:25
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 23-Jun-2005
Posts: 1315
From: Bradford, West Yorkshire

@nikosidis

Just seen the video https://twitter.com/chainq/status/1183013352706101248

Now would be a great time for AROS and MorphOS to join forces, both have the same goal as far as the community is concerned

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