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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 18:31:27
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1755
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

: ) ok i was just in rant mode. Typical Amiga Forum behaviour : ) It's so annoying. Toxic
In fact Paolone agreed looooong time ago that i convert AEROS to IcAROS more or less.

And so Paolone is totally free to go x64..

The real work is don my Micha Schulz.. follows his github
ARM 68K Jit .. This is the Train to watch out in order to be on the right Party with the cool kids.

..... i am running away now .... : D

Cu

@Vision: Karma is a bitch

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ASiegel 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 19:06:51
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 185
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

The "German pride" remark was a reference to the fact that the MorphOS project was initiated by people living in Germany. Still a racist statement, of course, just not about you.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 19:36:48
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11143
From: Norway

@vision

Quote:
Anyway the Aros community didn't need you until now and won't need you at no point.


It's kind funny and ironic that the work did on the open source "catweasel mk4 driver" I wrote for AmigaOS4.x was ported to AROS , now that you wrote that, maybe I should have keept it close sourced?

Anyway is also find funny everyone is allowed to have appinion about AmigaOS4.x and Hyperion, but when it comes to having an appinion about X86 / AROS / MorphOS, then it becomes a camp issue, I did not make in camp issue, you did that.

Or maybe your agents all kinds of negative talk, wont it be shame if people were not allowed voice their concern about anything that might help improve things? Or maybe we should be curious about things? I'm not sure what did wrong here.

And by the way Amos Kittens is written as open source project in spirit of sharing code / programs between the camps, to build larger community. Maybe you did not know that, or maybe like to stick to a black and white picture of the world. I don't see that helping anyone, maybe I should turn my back on open source?

I extremely clear about this, I’m not agent open source, I worked on few projects, a few donations here and there does NOT put food on the table, this part time ting, if this was my day job I spend 7.5 hours a day on coding. But It's not, so I spend around 1 to 3 hours after work on Amiga projects. Many people do not have that option I do, because most peaple are busy with family life simply do not have time. they have help there kids school work, and other things that are more important, like being there for there wife's.

I'm sure you don't get my point… but at least I tried.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 08:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 08:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 08:14 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 07:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 07:49 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 07:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 07:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 07:44 PM.

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saimon69 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 21:36:03
#44 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 274
From: Los Angeles, CA

If Nikos, "My Man", thne most enthusiastic AROS supporter i know since 2008 talks the way he did about things then you SHOULD be concerned, and now i am too :(

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fishy_fis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 4:14:24
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1851
From: Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

The exact same thing can be said about MOS, OS4, or OS3.x when it comes to hardware support.
At least with AROS the hardware isn't insanely expensive and can be more powerful than what was available 20 years ago.

All the Amiga-oid based OSes are in the exact same boat when it comes to maintainance, updating sdk, etc. Matter of fact AROS's dev-kits are usually somewhat more uptodate than those for MOS or OS4.

The fact that you have to buy expensive, underpowered hardware for OS4 or archaic Macs and also have to pay for the OSes doesnt make those ecosystems any more maintainable or updated. It just makes them more expensive options in the exact same boat.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 5:10:43
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1703
From: Chicago, IL

@NutsAboutAmiga

Thanx for all the hard work you have done coding for our nice hobby over the years, it's appreciated.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 7:10:56
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1037
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

I needed to state, as clearly as I can, that the version of Icaros 64 released to the public is something that wouldn't meet any user expectations, but "just boots" and "does something".

I'm happy the weird versioning number did its job.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 7:16:11
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1037
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I always felt like this with AROS, that kind failed to find its own identity, you can run as natively If just have the right hardware, if you don't you kind of need Linux, if you need Linux to run AROS


Isn't this a good identity already?

Quote:
and all the programs are on Linux, then what do you need AROS for.


You can use AROS to run Linux applications from the Linux side. At least, that's what I immediately let it do, when I put efforts into the hosted Icaros environment (and it's so good to do, even WinUAE and AmiKit's emulated environment have a similar feature).

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 7:37:43
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1037
From: Unknown

@vision (but it's a general answer)

Quote:
I don't care what you did in the past FOR YOU OWN BENEFIT (business) but now you ask for a kind of reciprocity between Aros and "Open AmigaOS" which never was given to the opposite side until now, but on the contrary, Aros was ignored, ridiculized, opposed, discredited, its possible resources taken away as much as possible, and upon of that you know that "collaboration" is kind of IMPOSSIBLE right now because of the legal dispute. So, what do you ask for now? rescue Amiga OS by wasting vital aros resources??


What AROS does not need are flames and fights within its tiny community. The project started long long long ago as a community effort to keep the Amiga API alive in a open-source fashion, wise founders chose the APL license *exactly* to allow people and companies to use their code when needed, without being scared by more viral effects of other free sotware licenses like the GPL. There's nothing strange if the project has been sometimes spoiled, and sometimes adversed, by companies making business with this undead platform. After all, a better AROS would have made their products even more pointless than they commercially are.

But, well, after more than 20 years from its inception, this project is (too) lately getting the right attention from the community that should have benefit since day 1. That's not an AROS issue, really. If the Amiga users community had accepted and embraced the AROS project for what it was, instead of creating a new false enemy, everyone of us would already have our dream OS. The open source nature allows us to adapt AROS to circumstances: a good 68K replacement for the original AmigaOS, a fast bridge to x86 and x86-64 for Amiga API and programs, a way to conquer mobile and tablets with ARM flavours. But no: we (Amigans) prefered to faithly follow a few chiwawa-sized companies which bark like rottweilers, close ourselves in a kindergarden getting smaller and smaller every year, stubbornly refusing the reality of a market lesser and lesser interested in our opinions.

Today, well... today there is nothing more to struggle and fight about, sorry.

There are many handycraft projects surrounding what Amiga was, and little groups of people devoted to them. *This* is *the* reality. And the last thing we need is anger.

Last edited by paolone on 14-Oct-2019 at 07:40 AM.

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kolla 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 8:30:25
#50 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ASiegel

Quote:
Still a racist statement


No it was not a racist comment, Germans are not a "race".
Your reaction only confirms the stereotype presented though.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 8:55:33
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

Quote:
vision wrote:

(the obvious origin of all community splitting just because a wrong german pride)


...but he is actually Belgian!

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 9:01:27
#52 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote:

when 68K AmigaOS becomes OpenSource..


My personal hopes for this happening recently diminished:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=12222&post_id=142895&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1

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vision 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 9:59:21
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Your childish and repetitive insults deserves you no answer, just several reports to the admins and waiting an apology to consider you again someone sane and not some unbalance. Especially after it seems your heat didn't allow you to understand any of my statements. At the end of the day I was just expressing my opinion without insults.

You run a business? poor customers if you treat them like that if they say something you don't like.


@Nikosidis

"For AROS it stalled long time ago.

I always supported AROS but the project is not working. MorphOS seams like the brightest future for AMD64"

Yeah, I need to learn from you. I am wrong to disagree from that manipulative comment.


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vision 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 10:29:49
#54 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@paolone

I am sorry that you maybe misunderstood my comment: I am ok that aros code is used for commercial projects. That's something so old and usually happen with linux projects. It is alredy happening with Microsoft and I even support Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman for kind of "welcoming" Microsoft. I am far away from being neither "purist" nor conflictive.

What I was criticising was that idea of a new "Open AmigaOS". Really? don't you see how deeply is ignoring the aros project with that, being practically the same concept and asking to start it all over again from scratch? how absurd it is because even we could use some sources that we already have, are already kind of unusable and too old, and would be in constant danger because of the legal implications? do I need to specifically state this?

Some Amiga users (tiny portion, in fact, there are no more than maybe 50 active users around here) never accepted Aros just because of their purist conception of what's an Amiga, and now they only kind of accept to briefly open their arms just because of the daring situation of the "official" platform. Well, instead of trying to satisfy some dozens from "the last bastion", we should be asking ourselves why the once reference portal for Amiga fans, it is now a TINY community largely surpassed by other communities from initially smaller ones, like Atari, C64, Spectrum, Amstrad, MSX, etc... with stronger, thousand of times friendlier, and more interesting and ambitious projects both in hardware and software.

Since long time ago I feel we take too much attention to the ones remaining, instead of the ones that already left. Some people should ask themselves, why did they leave? just life? it is just because they are tired of the Amiga? don't like it anymore? or were they just tired of stupid fighting, purist statements, legal threats, and general behaviour of just a tiny (but loudest) portion of the community, so they switched to create their own communities, fb groups, new platforms, etc...? Well, answers are expressed in private and elsewhere, but if some were aware of them around here, they would drop some jaws off.

As a little example, you put a lot of attention to precisely answer and correct some comments of my post, but didn't say a word about the half dozen of insults I received just because I corrected a statement about Aros being kind of "dead", and asked to please not split the community again with a new "open" platform ( just because some don't like aros, or more precisely, some people there to whom some have a history with ;) ) or other harebrained ideas.

So, in you oppinion, what needs to be corrected here is that I need to be more "polite", not disagree, not defend Aros against lies and the hard work you and others are doing, while on the other side this is an open space for insults, discredits and lies? sure this is the best?

Last edited by vision on 14-Oct-2019 at 10:48 AM.
Last edited by vision on 14-Oct-2019 at 10:42 AM.
Last edited by vision on 14-Oct-2019 at 10:30 AM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 11:21:44
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1755
From: Unknown

@vision
you are still saying an open Amiga OS would ignore AROS or be counter productive ... nope..

stop arguing as everything you are talking about is based on wrong interpretations.

And my insults are mainly driven by your personal attack.. you can disagree gently..
My life is short and so as i am not able to hit you with a stone in your face i can only start being insulting as counter reaction to your bullshit.

All in all i think you are just a piece of "s*it" in the history of Amiga Forum Members.
I think everything is said.

Oh.. I don't do business i support(ed) only.

I never felt to need convincing anyone.. if you don't share my view it is ok but treat me with respect or i jump with my naked ass straight in your face.

I thinks its my freedom to defend myself against accusations.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 11:27 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 11:26 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 11:22 AM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 11:48:14
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 185
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
No it was not a racist comment, Germans are not a "race".

"Racism is an ideological construct that assigns a certain race and/or ethnic group to a position of power over others on the basis of physical and cultural attributes"

Source: EUROPEAN NETWORK AGAINST RACISM - Shadow Report 2018

Quote:
Your reaction only confirms the stereotype presented though.

Well, some people use the flimsiest of excuses to reinforce their own prejudices.

I was not born in the country I happen to live in today, by the way.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:24:31
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5567
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

"My life is short and so as i am not able to hit you with a stone in your face i can only start being insulting as counter reaction to your bullshit."

"i jump with my naked ass straight in your face."

hopefully noone from outside reads this thread

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:30:27
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5567
From: Unknown

@paolone

for me X86 or even X64 always was without chance...

the problem were and are the drivers

Aros with its very limited resources should have concentrated on static hardware, so in my view both Raspberry and Vampire (68k) are best chances

MorphOS team are in a better situation there... there is a team behind it that defines goals and reach those. On Aros progress mostly depends on the motivation and goals of one or two developers. That is not enough to progress.

But I am not that pessimistic at the moment... thanks to 68k Aros might get more interest now than in all the years before.

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kolla 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:32:07
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ASiegel

OK, let's play this game...

Quote:

Quote:
No it was not a racist comment, Germans are not a "race".

"Racism is an ideological construct that assigns a certain race and/or ethnic group to a position of power over others on the basis of physical and cultural attributes"


Note the AND there - it's not an OR. Also note that "ideological" is a requirement - exactly what idealogical view do you attach the comment about "german pride" to?

Quote:
I was not born in the country I happen to live in today, by the way.


What does that have to do with anything - the point is that you bring in terminology that is way out of place - racism is a serious matter - what you call a racist comment, was not a serious matter at all. It was a reference to a certain stereotype which sadly can easily be experienced.

And lastly - "Germans" are not even an ethnic group, it's a whole bunch of ethnic groups, each with their own characteristics. Never have I heard anyone in Germany mock Bavarians... nah... never... :p

Last edited by kolla on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:35 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:34 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:33 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:32 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:32 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:33:55
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5567
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

you never was interested in Aros 68k (the same is true for other Aros fans who were only interested in X86). I remember discussions about how useless Aros 68k is...

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