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      /  i-RAM for sam440ep...
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KimmoK 
i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 13-Nov-2019 20:47:21
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

My sam440ep has only 512Mb of RAM, therefore fast and durable swap might be handy...

Has anyone tried some RAM cards on PCI?

Or this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-RAM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-i-RAM-board-NEW-ramdisk-boxed-/233169622678
(only power via PCI, transfer via SATA ~280€)

...but perhaps tabor would be better as "ram upgrade"...

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bennymee 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 14-Nov-2019 12:23:13
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 583
From: Netherlands

@KimmoK

This reads as a storage upgrade and not as a RAM upgrade to your system.

It is not like the Amiga Zorro BigRAM memory expansion https://amigastore.eu/27-bigramplus.html

Last edited by bennymee on 14-Nov-2019 at 12:23 PM.

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Rose 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 14-Nov-2019 13:02:30
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 673
From: Unknown

@bennymee

It's also slower than todays €20 120GB ssd's.

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KimmoK 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 14-Nov-2019 13:09:39
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@bennymee

Yes.

Ideally my SAM would need a PCI card that has (1GB) RAM that can be seen by AOS4 as some kind of "priority2" RAM or as swap (virtual memory) device. (data transfers being over PCI)
(no need for battery back up when used as RAM or swap)


But to my understanding that kind of solutions do not readily exist, especially not in sane price range?
And perhaps it would be too much to ask for some HW+SW dev to do that for a very very small niche need (mainstream is more interested in having terabytes via multichannel PCIe v3 + with battery back up).


But SATA connected RAM disks do exist. I have seen some that start from about €200.
That might be useful as swap drive but perhaps those are way too expensive vs the alternative of getting a better motherboard.

(( I have SSD drives & 150MB/s SATA interface to use on my SAM, but I'm afraid SSD would not last for long when used as a swap drive.
I most likely try to set system (DH0:) to use SSD and swap to use the traditional HDD.))


Elegant solution would be ACube to offer a replacement where I could send my SAM440ep+€200 and get 1GB version or a -flex model. Or that I could send my SAM440ep+€300 and get Sam460cr


bah...

"Systems with little RAM
Things are different on a system where RAM is sparse and cannot be upgraded. In this case, swapping may indeed occur more often, especially when we run memory-intensive applications. In these systems, a swap partition or file on a SSD may lead to a dramatic performance improvement at the cost of a somewhat shorter SSD lifespan. This decreased lifespan may, however, still not be short enough to warrant concern. In all likelihood, the SSD may be replaced long before it would've died because several times the storage may be available at a fraction of today's prices."


I should not worry, just use the SSD on Amigalike machines and get new SSD every now and then, untill I have A1222 or some other board with plenty of memory.
(+Most likely SSDs die only on those bloated systems where HDD led is lit 24/7.)

Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Nov-2019 at 02:28 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Nov-2019 at 01:44 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Nov-2019 at 01:32 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Nov-2019 at 01:18 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Nov-2019 at 01:11 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 10:15:14
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@KimmoK

Someone will need to piggy back some ram I guess.
I'm sure other Sam440 user will love some hardware hacks.

all you need is a extra chipselect you need get from some where right.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 10:18 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 10:16 AM.

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Rose 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 11:49:44
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 673
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@KimmoK

Someone will need to piggy back some ram I guess.
I'm sure other Sam440 user will love some hardware hacks.

all you need is a extra chipselect you need get from some where right.


Considering that even C revision with SO-DIMM slot is limited 512Mb I doubt that it would work. Not to mention how "fun" it's to piggyback relatively fine pitch SMD IC's.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 13:00:41
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@Rose

DDR SDRAM Memory ControllerThe Double Data Rate (DDR) SDRAM memory controller supports industry standard discrete devices. Up to four 256MB logical banks are supported in limited configurations. Global memory timings, address and bank sizes, and memory addressing modes are programmable.Features include:

• Registered and non-registered industry standard discrete devices
• 32-bit memory interface with optional 8-bit ECC (SEC/DED)
• Sustainable 1.1 GB/s peak bandwidth at 133 MHz
• SSTL_2 logic
• 1 to 4 chip selects
• CAS latencies of 2, 2.5 and 3 supported
• DDR200/266 support
• Page mode accesses (up to eight open pages) with configurable paging policy
• Programmable address mapping and timing
• Hardware and software initiated self-refresh
• Power management (self-refresh, suspend, sleep)

--> So 256MB x 4 = 1024MB of MAX RAM for AMCC 440.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 01:01 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 13:21:19
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@Rose

So was thinking a small PCB whit DDR SDRAM sockets, you can then remove the onboard ram from the motherboard, solder the PCB on top of motherboard, and then you need to find the 2 missing chip select signal somewhere under the AMCC440 chip.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 01:24 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 01:23 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 01:22 PM.

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Rose 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 13:27:20
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 673
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

So was thinking a small PCB whit DDR SDRAM sockets, you can then remove the onboard ram from the motherboard, solder the PCB on top of motherboard, and then you need to find the 2 missing chip select signal somewhere under the AMCC440 chip.


Possible in theory, yes. In practice you would end up with reeeeally intresting timing & general memory issues.

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KimmoK 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 14:23:56
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

On my SAM440ep there is one dimm socket with 512MB dimm.
There is no RAM soldered on the board, chip locations have pins but no RAM chips present.

My board is pretty identical vs this:
http://www.soft3dev.net/hardware-images/sam440ep-733.jpg

Some other variation of the board:
https://www.golem.de/0809/62494-acube-systems-sam440ep.jpg
http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/sam440ep_carte2.jpg

Perhaps there is some design bug that does not enable using both.
Otherwise I could get another 512M soldered.

sam440ep-flex has two dimm slots and both can be populated to have 1GB RAM.

Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 12:15 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 16:42:54
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@KimmoK

Need to find out if it’s the same chip select signals or different chip select signal lines I guess. if its the same chip select signals, then they need to rerouted to the once that are not in use.

I'm not sure if memory will be auto detected or if you need to change something in UBOOT, to get it to detect the memory

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 04:44 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 17:49:44
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 555
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

I don't know if AOS4 supports memory on PCI, but the Datasheet of the 440EP – PPC440EP clearly says: Executing code from PCI address space might hang the CPU

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 16-Nov-2019 19:46:17
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@OneTimer1

no, the PCI slot is a window, its paged memory at best, its not that you can't, but needs OS support for memory mapped IO. this memory will also be slow compared to normal memory.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 07:50 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 07:49 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2019 at 07:46 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 13:55:15
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9755
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
So was thinking a small PCB whit DDR SDRAM sockets, you can then remove the onboard ram from the motherboard, solder the PCB on top of motherboard, and then you need to find the 2 missing chip select signal somewhere under the AMCC440 chip.


This looks like just what you do to add memory to a Commodore C16. Another computer designed to be limited by RAM. Unless you somehow hack it onto the PCB.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 16:33:06
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@Hypex

he he, you got me, I was inspired by "Retro Recipes", but anyway modern computer work on the same basic principles, just lot more effected by signal noise, and also the length of traces also some to think about when designing this things.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2019 at 04:33 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 20:00:40
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11219
From: Norway

@Hypex

The signals on CPU pinout needed:

pin - name
N01 - BankSel3
R01 - BankSel2
R02 - BankSel1
R04 - BankSel0

http://pdf.eepw.com.cn/p20091020/262fe7afb0f774940376efbc609e2691.pdf

More info on it at page 51

And then you need maybe small PCB for BGA...

and maybe do this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTAU647jzzk

What can go wrong


Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2019 at 08:31 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2019 at 08:31 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2019 at 08:01 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: i-RAM for sam440ep...
Posted on 20-Nov-2019 13:45:43
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9755
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
The signals on CPU pinout needed:


Oh so just a few.

Quote:
More info on it at page 51


Just a bit more. I like the note at number 6.

Quote:
And then you need maybe small PCB for BGA...


Small enough for blue green alphas.

Quote:
and maybe do this...


A DIY ball kit! Awesome!

Quote:
What can go wrong


Ha!

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