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PosterThread
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 13:15:49
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12273
From: Norway

@ferrels

For year there is lack of money, due to legal disputes and fractures in the community, as result every effort is tripled, resulting in no progress for years, the result is somewhat substandard USB stack, no Bluetooth support, outdated TCP/IP stack, simple memory protection, lack of SMP, and number of other components not being fixed, like AmigaInput (the joystick / joypad api), I love AmigaOS4.1, but its so slow progress, and it impossible to fix anything without signing a NDA, and there is no recruitment its the same people year after year. Something is not working.

Most new development, we know about is for AmigaOS3.x, so maybe it better to focus on Linux, there also where jobs are.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-May-2020 at 01:19 PM.

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sTix 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 14:36:28
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2003
Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden

@deadwood

I got the example to work (pure magic to see a MUI application on Linux) but there seems to be some host contamination in there (I'm trying to build random things):

/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/libdebug.a(_kprintf.o): In function `KPrintF':
/ssd/deadwood/repo-github-dd-alt-runtimelinux/AROS/rom/debug/./_kprintf.c:19: undefined reference to `SysBase'

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deadwood 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 14:44:57
#63 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 410
From: Unknown

@sTix

Add -lexec at the end of linker libraries. If this does not work, can you share your zipped project somewhere for me to see?

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nikosidis 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 15:51:05
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 989
From: Norway, Oslo

@deadwood

I'm using peppermint. Mplayer open but I can not select anything from the top menu and the buttons does not work on the player.

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:05:51
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
@ferrels

For year there is lack of money, due to legal disputes and fractures in the community, as result every effort is tripled, resulting in no progress for years, the result is somewhat substandard USB stack, no Bluetooth support, outdated TCP/IP stack, simple memory protection, lack of SMP, and number of other components not being fixed, like AmigaInput (the joystick / joypad api), I love AmigaOS4.1, but its so slow progress, and it impossible to fix anything without signing a NDA, and there is no recruitment its the same people year after year. Something is not working.

Most new development, we know about is for AmigaOS3.x, so maybe it better to focus on Linux, there also where jobs are.


How is any of this progress? It certainly isn't progress for the Amiga to port Amiga apps to Linux and it certainly doesn't bring any progress to Linux. Linux already has a robust application library that is more flexible and feature-rich than anything that would or could be ported over from the Amiga. Porting an Amiga app over to Linux doesn't fix a damn thing as far as SMP, joypad/joystick or anything else on the Amiga. If you port an Amiga app to Linux, you get a Linux app running on Linux....period.

And here's news for you. The Amiga died over 30 years ago and any Amiga programmers who made a living from programming Amigas moved on to other platforms shortly thereafter. You make it sound as if there have been starving Amiga coders sitting at home for the past 30 years waiting for a means to port Amiga apps to Linux, which is simply delusional.

Last edited by ferrels on 13-May-2020 at 06:07 PM.

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bison 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:19:47
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2088
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

Quote:
I'm using peppermint. Mplayer open but I can not select anything from the top menu and the buttons does not work on the player.

There's an issue with xfwm4. I tried marco (the window manager from MATE), and that works.

peppermint@peppermint ~ $ sudo apt-get install marco

peppermint@peppermint ~ $ ps -ef | grep xfwm4
pepperm+ 2315 2231 0 16:59 ? 00:00:01 xfwm4
pepperm+ 4432 2613 0 17:02 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --colour=auto xfwm4
peppermint@peppermint ~ $ kill -9 2315; nohup marco 2>/dev/null 1>&2 &

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bison 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:24:18
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2088
From: N-Space

@deadwood

Quote:
BTW, have you had a change to re-compile any software using the SDK?

No, not yet. I'm rusty on Amiga programming, and short on time.

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:41:47
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@Ami603

Quote:

Ami603 wrote:
@ferrels

I disagree.
Being able to compile and test applications on a foreign OS would improve workflow for those tied to croscompiling on another machines.


This axruntime library does nothing to improve the workflow of a coder who uses a cross compiler on Windows or Linux that targets the Amiga. The axrutime library is simply an API shim that makes porting Amiga source code to Linux easier, period, and you end up with a Linux x86 binary. Why would a Linux developer targeting Linux use a foreign OS such as AmigaOS paired with a cross compiler to generate a Linux binary that still has to be tested on Linux x86 hardware? If he has x86 hardware on hand for testing he's also going to use that same system for development. To conduct said development on an Amiga would simply be ridiculous due to the lack of raw CPU horsepower and the extremely deficient or simply missing devs tools on the Amiga. The axruntime library is for programmers who want to use native Linux dev tools to compile Amiga source code and generate a Linux app and run that app on Linux. It has nothing to do with cross compiling or back porting that app back over to the Amiga again.

Programmers don't use dead platforms to develop apps for living platforms for obvious reasons but apparently you missed that or you're very confused.

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:53:54
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@ferrels

you completely miss the point

it is not for porting amiga applications to linux (or the opposite) but to have a solid development environment based on linux to develop amiga applications (in reality propably aros applications)

"Programmers don't use dead platforms to develop apps for living platforms for obvious reasons but apparently you missed that or you're very confused"

you seem to be confused too

I cite deadwood:

"This solution lets developers compile their Amiga API-based applications as Linux binaries. Once the features are implemented, tested and optimized using the runtime on Linux, developers re-compile their applications for their Amiga-like system of choice and perform final quality checking."

you develop and test on linux, use modern tools and at the end compile it for the amiga target to final test it there

Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-May-2020 at 06:59 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-May-2020 at 06:55 PM.

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Ami603 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 18:55:52
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 580
From: Valencia,Spain 8-)

@ferrels

The generated Linux application doesn't have to be the end result, but a interesting step to be able to check application progress without switching to the final platform result.
It indeed is a help for those who still develops for amiga but doesn't have the native machine at Hand.

Last edited by Ami603 on 13-May-2020 at 06:56 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 19:00:42
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@Ami603

not only that

you have certainly better tools on linux than on amiga and you have more powerful hardware

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 19:04:22
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@OlafS25

Quote:
I cite deadwood:


And I will state that deadwood is full of shit. Have you even looked at the repository on github? Obviously not if you're only citing deadwood's first post on this topic.

So no, I'm not confused at all. I'm informed. You're simply ignorant of the facts and being misled.

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 19:07:06
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6128
From: Unknown

@ferrels

and you have bad manners... that is worse

think what you want

further talk unneccessary

bye

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 19:09:50
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@OlafS25

It's been a pleasure keeping you informed.

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deadwood 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 19:15:34
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 410
From: Unknown

@bison

Got it. It case you run into problems, PM me or post here.

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terminills 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 20:24:05
#76 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1435
From: Unknown

@ferrels

It's really simple a simple concept. If you don't like it STFU and let people interested determine if it's of use to them. Obviously the people who are attempting to use it see value in it. So you blathering like an idiot won't change the fact that some people see value in it.

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amigadave 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 20:32:17
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@ferrels

If you are going to "claim" that someone is full of shit, at least describe in detail what it is about that person, or project that you disagree with. Which claim that deadwood has made about his AxRuntime are you disputing, other than your opinion that people won't use it for his intended purpose?

If you are claiming that it's worthless simply because no one has yet used it to create, or improve any Amiga/AROS/MorphOS software, then I would counter that it might take some time for this new tool to be used by any other developers.

Please stick to facts, and not your opinion about the usefulness of this project, if you are going to claim to be "informing" the rest of us.

Edit: AxRuntime might be most useful for AROS hosted developers, but it seems to me that it could be used by other developers as well, if they chose to try it out. Being able to compile something, then run it on the same machine, tweak it again and again, before finally compiling it back to the intended target platform, seems like a useful thing to me, but I guess many programmers are resistant to any kind of change in how they accomplish things, and those who are already cross-compiling on modern hardware, aren't likely to change or try this out.

Last edited by amigadave on 13-May-2020 at 08:39 PM.

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sTix 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 13-May-2020 21:00:45
#78 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2003
Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden

@deadwood

Quote:
Add -lexec at the end of linker libraries. If this does not work, can you share your zipped project somewhere for me to see?


Bashing the keyboard during the coffebreak at work wasn't a great idea. After giving it some more time I got it working (it's here: https://github.com/sodero/InstallerLG).

Unfortunately I only have access to SSH from here so I can't tell if it runs, but it builds, very very nice.

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deadwood 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 14-May-2020 5:54:40
#79 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 410
From: Unknown

@sTix

Glad the issue is resolved. Looking forward to how it runs. It there are issues, post them here or directly to bug tracker: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/issues

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sTix 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 14-May-2020 8:30:57
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2003
Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden

@deadwood

It runs, but there seems to be an argv problem. I filed an issue here:

https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/issues/3

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