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PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 3-Jul-2020 17:06:23
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@evilFrog

Good point! I forgot about that last drive flag. Personally I think it's more trouble than it's worth. I'm sure it's useful for some things. But it always gets in the way when you least expect it and you can go crazy trying to get the hardware to work when the software is blocking devices.

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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 3-Jul-2020 18:53:32
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@Hypex

Everybody forgets the last drive flag until it ruins your weekend

It made a lot more sense with SCSI, where timing out on potentially 6 other devices+LUNs (some of which take a lifetime to respond, like tape, or a CD changer) would be a massive pain. If only C= hadn’t called the IDE port scsi.device...

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 1:44:28
#23 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@evilFrog

@hypex

Good advice folks, but I am still getting nowhere.

When I get it to boot on the CF, I can see the ST in the IDE tools. I have clicked on it and viewed properties, but see no method to change drive labels.

If I get it to boot on the ST, I cannot see the CF drive in any way.

I am using the HDIntTools on the Amigakit CF (see screenshots)
I am also using the IDE Tools on tha CF drive

Still cannot get the ST drive to show up as a device. I checked and they have different device labels (ADHO, ADH1, DH0, DH1)

IMG-1487
IMG-1486
IMG-1485
IMG-1484

Last edited by cc3d on 04-Jul-2020 at 01:48 AM.
Last edited by cc3d on 04-Jul-2020 at 01:45 AM.

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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 8:16:34
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@cc3d

I think you just need to highlight the CF card and click 'save changes to drive'. HDInstTools has already picked up on the change.

_________________
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil."

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 15:22:33
#25 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@evilFrog

neverending story here...

I tried you suggestion to no avail. Seems sensible, don't know why it' not working. Is there a mountlist for Amiga drives?

I thought perhaps I would copy the ST drive over to the empty partition of the CF drive while I am here. Seems like I don't have that option. It would only let me choose source and destination from partitions of the same device.

I would say I am about to give up, but this is my 26th year with this Amiga, I'll give it another decade or two.

I do appreciate the help.

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Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 16:23:00
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@evilFrog

Yes it does.

I actualy have a LUN problem on my A4000. A SCSI 3 HDD drive is connected to my CyberSCSI controller and I have all these useless partition duplicates turn up on my Workbench. Caused by all these LUNs generated by the drive,

I don't see a way to disable LUNs from the Cyber software, which I thought would be the most basic way. I can't see any boot menu for it. And HDToolbox ignores them so I can't seem to use the last device features of that either! In fact I couldn't even see any flags for it in HDToolbox and I had the OS3.9 version. Right now I just hide them on the Workbench but that's only a work around.

Yes, that damned IDE scsi.device. Rumoured to be called that because software expected it to use that device name. Who cares? That's ridiculous really. As HDToolbox being the system software can know and detect these things. Other software tended to use specific controlers. In any case that was always too low level. as those devices are a programming API, which the user shouldn't need to know about. The Amiga became too technical really in the end.

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Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 16:52:15
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@cc3d

While it's working off the CF card, if you remove the HDD, can it still boot off the CF? That would at least remove the dependence off the HDD after you copy the files off.

Checking out HDInstTools. Looks like you need to go into the Setup sections to find the last drive options. Should be able to check them there. You could also do this from the HDD and might need to run it after booting the HDD as well. Do you have the latest 6.9 version also available on Aminet?

As to copying, you don't need any special tools for that, as the Workbench is fine. With a source volume and destination volume ready to go. Open up the source, select show files, select all (Amiga A), then hold shift and drag all the icons onto your desination.

A simpler way is to simply drag a source volume into the destination window open. Which will create a directory for you and copy all the files in. Which is good for a backup. But when you want to copy a volume you need root files in the root directory.

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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 18:40:57
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
and I have all these useless partition duplicates turn up on my Workbench. Caused by all these LUNs generated by the drive,


I had something similar... CyberStorm-MKII with the SCSI board, Seagate HD, ~250G. I noticed it was only doing it if the first partition was a valid one, so I put an 8MB partition at the top of the drive and marked it as reserved ('RESV')... Sometimes, you’ve just got to be a sneaky barsteward.

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 19:40:53
#29 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@Hypex

Let me dig into the "Setup sections to find the last drive options."

As for copying, I cannot see the ST drive anywhere else but in HDTools. I have no way to copy anything as I cannot locate HD0 and HD1 via workbench, shell or DOpus (the CF is ADH0, ADH1, ADH2)

thanks again

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 20:20:07
#30 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@evilFrog

So i am making changes in HDTools (to set last LUN, etc.) and the changes don't stick. I change the CF, save then change the ST, save, reboot and all is back as it was in the beginning.

Is there a trick to getting HDTools settings to stick?
Do I set last TID as well?

thanks again.

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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 4-Jul-2020 22:42:40
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@cc3d

Yeah. Looking at your last screenshots, I’d clear last TID on the CF, and set it on the HD. If you look at the devices summary, it lists the values for each device, and that’s the one that changes between the two devices. So that’s the important one.

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 5-Jul-2020 0:20:11
#32 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@evilFrog

What's the deal with my changes not saving? I have tried several different ways and the changes flip right back to the first settings.

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Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 5-Jul-2020 16:03:34
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@evilFrog

Quote:
Sometimes, you’ve just got to be a sneaky barsteward.


Last edited by Hypex on 05-Jul-2020 at 04:04 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 5-Jul-2020 16:14:53
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@cc3d

Quote:
As for copying, I cannot see the ST drive anywhere else but in HDTools. I have no way to copy anything as I cannot locate HD0 and HD1 via workbench, shell or DOpus (the CF is ADH0, ADH1, ADH2)


Oh right, sorry. I thought if it came up in the device list it would be mounted as well. I see that is not the case.

Although HD tools shouldn't be mixed, I wonder if HDToolbox could fix it up instead?

This section from the HDInstTools doc may shed some light on the subject.

Quote:
.8.3 Control

The first three control flags »last unit:«, »last TID« and
»last LUN« are especially evaluated by the system programs upon
startup. The system programs read these three values and know
up to where they have to scan for devices. If a device is
specified as the last one, the scanning process stops with that
device and devices connected thereafter will not be mounted to
the system. Please not that this function is only supported by
the latest operating system versions.

last unit:

The program automatically sets the flag to the correct
position. It defines that the device that you are installing is
last device to be mounted to the system.

By setting this flag no further devices are mounted to the
system.

last TID:

The program automatically sets the flag to the correct
position. It defines that the device that you are installing is
last device of that controller, to be mounted to the system. Up
to seven devices may be connected to a SCSI-controller. If you
have only connected one harddisk, you can activate this flag.
This prevents the system programs from looking for other
additional devices upon booting and may save some time.


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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 5-Jul-2020 18:49:13
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@cc3d

Quote:

cc3d wrote:
@evilFrog

What's the deal with my changes not saving? I have tried several different ways and the changes flip right back to the first settings.


Does it do that if you go back to that page without closing the program, or do you need to quit and restart before it forgets? If it’s the second one, I’d say it’s auto-detecting on startup and getting it wrong. If it’s the first, sounds more like HDInstTools just isn’t keeping your changes.

I’d be inclined to agree with @Hypex here -
Quote:
Although HD tools shouldn't be mixed, I wonder if HDToolbox could fix it up instead?

I think last time I dealt with a "last drive" flag, I was using HDToolbox to do it. It’s a bit clunky compared to other programs, but when all else fails...

_________________
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil."

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 5-Jul-2020 23:28:31
#36 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@evilFrog

It remembers if I leave HDInstTools and open it back up. after rebooting, it forgets the settings. I don't have HDToolbox on the CF, I am looking at how I could accomplish this.

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Hypex 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 7-Jul-2020 15:49:25
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10095
From: Greensborough, Australia

@cc3d

If you have a set of Workbench disks you can grab it off the the Install disk.

Failing that, if you have a PC with a floppy drive like an external USB floppy drive these days, you could download it to floppy off the PC. Then on the Amiga mount PC0 and read it off.

Last resort, using UAE to mount the card directly, then download and copy over inside emlation.

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AndyFC 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 9-Jul-2020 14:22:33
#38 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

@cc3d

I recently bought a CF card from Amigakit and had issues, and I ended up sending it back for a refund sadly.

I diagnosed it as an incompatibility between the supplied 4GB CF card and IDEFix. As long as the CF adapter and supplied card were the only things on the IDE chain AND IDEFix wasn't running, the card would boot (to the installer and then to Workbench). As soon as it was part of a setup with IDEFix (e.g. Boot off my normal 3.5" HD with the CF as a slave, or even with only the CF adapter/card attached as master) it would hang on boot at a grey screen with the white 'Workbench' line at the top. IDEFix would also hang during install at the 'detection' stage when installing it on the vanilla OS on the card. I even tried with the version of IDEFix patched for CF cards and had similar results.

I borrowed a smaller CF card from a friend and that worked fine in the adapter.

I had a few suggestions from AmigaKit once I contacted support but nothing resolved it.

Last edited by AndyFC on 09-Jul-2020 at 02:26 PM.

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cc3d 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 11-Jul-2020 0:35:31
#39 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2020
Posts: 38
From: USA

@Hypex

SOLVED

Taking the CF back to WinUAE and addting HDTools was the trick.

Once I launched HDTools (back on the A4000)- > selected the IDE (ST) drive and clicked SAVE CHANGES, the IDE (ST) drive showed up!

Okay, good one folks, thanks! I'll post my next issue in a new thread

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evilFrog 
Re: Amigakit IDE CF
Posted on 11-Jul-2020 11:20:59
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2004
Posts: 368
From: UK

@cc3d

Awesome, glad you got it sorted!

The old tools are still worth having sometimes. Just don't use HDToolbox to "Low level" format an IDE drive - old drives have lots of important logic on the disk surface... so apparently if the drive takes the command seriously it becomes an instant paperweight.

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