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      /  Amiga.com change - what happens next?
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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 27-Sep-2021 22:35:23
#221 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@thread

After indicating progress end of August, 2021...

Intellivision filed their answer today

#6

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kriz 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 27-Sep-2021 23:08:29
#222 ]
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Joined: 20-Mar-2005
Posts: 211
From: No (R) Way

I have not heard about this issue, but Cloanto wants Intellivision to not name their new console Amico ? Can they really request that ? When searching, more info here: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/323815-amigaamico-and-the-trademark-objection/#comments

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 28-Oct-2021 20:58:33
#223 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
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From: In the village

@thread

Amico/Amiga trademark issue resolved

#6

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TiredofLife 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 28-Oct-2021 23:07:19
#224 ]
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Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1684
From: Here

@number6

I clicked on that last link and got taken to an Atari page
I would report you if I thought anyone would take any notice.

Next time give a warning before placing a link like that.
I have a young child in the house, he could have seen that.

Not happy.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 12:59:54
#225 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@thread

Brief statement from Amiga Corporation:

https://twitter.com/AmigaCorp/status/1453900314915053568

#6

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amigang 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 14:42:09
#226 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1841
From: Cheshire, England

@number6

little bit odd, it feels like Cloanto / Amiga did a lawsuit first, talk and discuss issues latter, bit odd, just like the Amiga Addict / Amiga Kit issue, why cant they just fire off a few emails / letters / phone calls first (i mean they may have and not got a response) raise the issues and concerns before lawsuits and threats. i just hope they learn from this and try talk first, lawsuit second, it kind how it should be.

then again this is the Amiga world where it seems, lawsuit come before anything productive!


Last edited by amigang on 29-Oct-2021 at 02:44 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 14:47:16
#227 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@amigang

I'm a little confused by what you have stated.
This was an objection to a trademark filing not a lawsuit.
Also, this objection was clearly stated by Cloanto at the time to have been forced by a 3rd party,
so perhaps it's the 3rd party you should direct your question towards?

#6

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Mobileconnect 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 14:53:08
#228 ]
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Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 473
From: Unknown

@number6

If Michael is smart, and especially if he was forced to object to the Amico trademark by Ben, he will have done a deal with Intellivision that says they promise not to sue each other or interfere with each other's use of their respective marks, and they both acknowledge the trademark rights of the other, if and only if those marks are being used by Michael/Cloanto/The real Amiga Inc, and not by anyone else

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Birbo 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 14:54:33
#229 ]
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Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 592
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@amigang

It was an objection to a trademark. Not a lawsuit.

Now they talked about it and issue has been resolved.

This means: You can talk to Amiga Corporation and find solutions. (if you want)


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Birbo 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 15:01:28
#230 ]
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Posts: 592
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@Mobileconnect

Cloanto (Michele Battilana) was surely not forced by Ben (haha, that one was funny), but by Amiga Corporation (which was formerly represented by Amiga Inc, Amino and Itec).

Or can you please give better details Michele, now that the case is resolved? Thank you.


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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 29-Oct-2021 15:06:37
#231 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@Mobileconnect

That one word "coexistence" in the tweet might support your notion.

#6

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LadyJane 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 5-Nov-2021 3:11:51
#232 ]
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Joined: 5-Aug-2019
Posts: 11
From: Unknown

@amigang

Quote:
Find it interesting it’s named The A500 mini, not Amiga Mini, or any official Amiga branding used, no colour tick or boing ball. I wonder if this would of cost them more, or Cloanto didn’t want it, or even this ip case / Hyperion case made it a issue to use them.


TheA500 Mini is based on a 2016 agreement with Cloanto, not Amiga. Cloanto only had the Amiga copyrights up to 1993, and no Amiga trademarks. Anything else would have triggered the need to sign Exhibit 3 of the 2009 settlement agreement (which lists trademarks like "Amiga", and where Software is defined as something with a 1994- date). Cloanto, like the new Amiga, did in fact sign that exhibit later (once additional assets changed hands).

Quote:
i still think it’s a stretch to think the name Amico & product would confuse the end consumer into thinking it was an Amiga.


Maybe you are right and it's a stretch, but if somebody thought so it was their right to bring the issue up during the trademark publication period. Perhaps there will be no confusion, but without a coexistence agreement how can you tell what Intellivision (or anyone acquiring them) might do later? If I was a game industry veteran, I might wonder whether "Amico" means that "Intellivision" alone is not good enough: if they can only use "Intellivision Amico", does it mean they have no license to "Intellivision" alone? I am still not sure about this whole move and the Amiga-like name.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
instred of suing Intellivision, and Hyperion for making products.


Nobody sued Intellivision.

Amiga and Hyperion sued each other. Hyperion is owned by a lawyer and could still use the money that Trevor Dickinson gave them to litigate against Amiga in 2007. With in-house lawyers and free money who needs to make products?

Quote:
Trying to prevent Hyperion from making money on OS3.2 to pay developers is not something I see any thing contributes to anything.


Well aware of "issues", the OS 3.1.4/3.2 developers did not want to be paid. They were fine with Hyperion keeping the proceeds to fund legal actions against multiple Amiga companies and Cloanto, and even against Timothy who had worked with them. As for the timing, the lawsuit had started well before 3.1.4/3.2, it was not meant to stop that.

The 3.1.4/3.2 developers are grown ups, they always knew the situation. The court case was there for everyone to see, the uncertainties had been exposed. They won't be able to hide behind "Ben told us so" if the court concludes that they were working with stolen source code (i.e. entrusted to Hyperion for OS4 use only).

Once the developers decided to do what they did, I don't think that 3.1.4/3.2 could have been stopped. They should have thought about it before. There were two reasons why (IMO) it should not have been released in the middle of the court case: because there was a doubt on it being legit, and because it was going to fund litigation.

Either you believe that every line of code has a moral and ethical implication, and that who you work for and what you do count, or you don't. Amiga love alone cannot make you that blind, can it?

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matthey 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 5-Nov-2021 6:41:10
#233 ]
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Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

LadyJane Quote:

Maybe you are right and it's a stretch, but if somebody thought so it was their right to bring the issue up during the trademark publication period. Perhaps there will be no confusion, but without a coexistence agreement how can you tell what Intellivision (or anyone acquiring them) might do later? If I was a game industry veteran, I might wonder whether "Amico" means that "Intellivision" alone is not good enough: if they can only use "Intellivision Amico", does it mean they have no license to "Intellivision" alone? I am still not sure about this whole move and the Amiga-like name.


The "Intellivision" name should be the best brand name to use for retro Intellivision game machine fans. Why introduce the new "Amico" brand line unless...

1. Wanting to attract Amiga fans as customers
2. Wanting to expand into other brand lines like computers where attracting Amiga fans would be advantageous

The new Intellivison business is just plain shady.

LadyJane Quote:

Well aware of "issues", the OS 3.1.4/3.2 developers did not want to be paid. They were fine with Hyperion keeping the proceeds to fund legal actions against multiple Amiga companies and Cloanto, and even against Timothy who had worked with them. As for the timing, the lawsuit had started well before 3.1.4/3.2, it was not meant to stop that.

The 3.1.4/3.2 developers are grown ups, they always knew the situation. The court case was there for everyone to see, the uncertainties had been exposed. They won't be able to hide behind "Ben told us so" if the court concludes that they were working with stolen source code (i.e. entrusted to Hyperion for OS4 use only).

Once the developers decided to do what they did, I don't think that 3.1.4/3.2 could have been stopped. They should have thought about it before. There were two reasons why (IMO) it should not have been released in the middle of the court case: because there was a doubt on it being legit, and because it was going to fund litigation.

Either you believe that every line of code has a moral and ethical implication, and that who you work for and what you do count, or you don't. Amiga love alone cannot make you that blind, can it?


Some responsibility needs to go to the customers of the new 68k AmigaOS as well. I refused to buy the update based on ethical grounds and I believe others did as well. Some of the customers and developers thought it was more important to show there was a healthy 68k market that was gaining momentum and to support each other. Perhaps some good came from this. There are worse cases of zombie followers supporting much worse unethical conduct. The unethical leaders usually get what is coming to them in the end. If Michele's entities are low on lawsuit funds, some Amiga Corporation stock could probably be sold to Amiga users who would rather support him on ethical grounds. Amiga Corporation has more potential than Hyperion even if the lawsuits are lost. Hyperion is done with the Amiga and likely as a business if they lose. My Amiga intuition says there will be a positive outcome eventually and maybe even before the end of the year. When the Amiga situation can't get any worse it has to get better.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 5-Nov-2021 13:10:50
#234 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@LadyJane

Welcome back.

Quote:
Maybe you are right and it's a stretch, but if somebody thought so it was their right to bring the issue up during the trademark publication period. Perhaps there will be no confusion, but without a coexistence agreement how can you tell what Intellivision (or anyone acquiring them) might do later? If I was a game industry veteran, I might wonder whether "Amico" means that "Intellivision" alone is not good enough: if they can only use "Intellivision Amico", does it mean they have no license to "Intellivision" alone? I am still not sure about this whole move and the Amiga-like name.


Just FYI:
some history on the name options from the CEO

The current marketting of what they call "physical product" clearly shows both "Intellivision" and "Amico" on the product. And as you may know they have numerous trademarks in the U.S. and overseas all at various status points in the trademark process.
My first impression (right or wrong) is that having to use "Amico" in combination with "Intellivision" somewhat makes for a reasonable differentiation from using the "Amico" mark by itself.
However, the "agreement" itself is not public and the "3rd party" behind the former issue is likely to not ever appear in print.

Added:
Terminated at uspto

#6

Last edited by number6 on 05-Nov-2021 at 01:27 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 5-Nov-2021 13:50:51
#235 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@matthey

If you are going to speculate about Hyperion's current status, I suggest you translate and attempt to understand all the ramifications of the last document (in dutch) filed at company.be about 1 month ago:

Source

#6

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matthey 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 5-Nov-2021 19:54:44
#236 ]
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Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

If you are going to speculate about Hyperion's current status, I suggest you translate and attempt to understand all the ramifications of the last document (in dutch) filed at company.be about 1 month ago:


The filing looks like mostly standard business activity from what I can make out. The accountant and tax adviser business Bofidi in the city of G(h)ent is granted power of attorney for activities related to their business services.

Bofidi web page
https://bofidi.eu/en/

It's possible that Bofidi was assigned by the government to more closely scrutinize or (tax) audit financial dealings but it may just be standard accounting activity.

It is interesting that Hyperion Entertainment sold the Hyperion stock to the Ben Herman B.V. This makes the Ben Herman B.V. more like a holding company common here in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_company

Belgium law is likely substantially different but this arrangement is more logical to me than the previous one. Perhaps some liability can be shifted to the owner (Ben Hermans B.V.) instead of Ben Hermans as owner and management giving more individual financial protection. The stock was sold and transferred while Hyperion may be at risk of great financial liability due to the lawsuits (for example paying the Amiga parties for the 68k AmigaOS profits and court costs). Maybe there is a tax loophole where the stock value doesn't recognize the risk from the lawsuits. Maybe Ben is positioning for a reorganizing type bankruptcy for Hyperion if forced to pay the Amiga parties by the court. Maybe Ben just needed to pull more money out of his B.V. to pay his taxes.

Ben Hermans B.V. is likely being watched more closely by the government and perhaps Hyperion too with the potential for conflicts of interest and shenanigans. Governments and courts are usually fair and friendly to businesses when they act in good faith and pay their taxes. Ben may be in trouble if they figure out he is nothing but a con man with a law degree.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 7-Nov-2021 12:58:07
#237 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
Ben Hermans B.V. is likely being watched more closely by the governmen


Interesting comment on the Amiganews.de story tying in with your thought:
http://amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/316092.html

#6

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 23:09:24
#238 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@LadyJane

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but we might as well close this out..

Quote:
if they can only use "Intellivision Amico"


Since they are no longer allowed to discuss this product at Atariage (the forums were removed ), I'll illustrate what happened after the fact. The details of the settlement were not made public obviously, but it clearly had to do with how the "Amico" portion was going to be used.
Shortly after settlement the company showed a power supply with "Amico" on it. Then what was claimed to be more like a handstamp of "Intellivision" added to it.

So, I support what you mentioned. The inclusion of that additional word makes the difference.
They have another filing for "Intellivision Prism" and I sincerely doubt they would have gotten away with calling their console "Prism" either without the "Intellivision" added to it.

Regardless, their main trademark next month will require a 5th and final extension filed in lieu of supplying a "statement of use". Since they had branded their physical product (the boxes with lenticular card and coin) with "Intellivision Amico", this may be enough for a future filing of "statement of use".

Otherwise, barring some avenue of appeal uspto is quite clear. The "use it or lose it" clause will be in effect by November.

#6

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amigang 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 22-Apr-2022 10:50:24
#239 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1841
From: Cheshire, England

@number6

Quote:
I'm a little confused by what you have stated.
This was an objection to a trademark filing not a lawsuit.


Sorry, your right I do mix up the two but basically my point was, why put in a trademark dispute filing first, rather setting up a private official agreement not to confuse the two trademarks. It maybe they did contact them first and got no repose so had to go though the official route. That's all I was trying to point out.

I do wonder if any one tried to sell a Amos 500, Amos Forever, Amos Mini would it be allowed?

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com change - what happens next?
Posted on 22-Apr-2022 12:39:40
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@amigang

Because it was not his option to do so:

Quote:
Approached by amiga-news.de, Mike Battilana (Cloanto, Amiga Corporation) explains that this opposition was requested "by a contractual partner", and that he had no option but to heed the request. Normally it would have been executed via the new Amiga company, but since Hyperion has not released their US oppositions, and this is a US case, it had to be filed under Cloanto.


#6

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