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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
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kas1e 
New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 5:31:04
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3490
From: Russia

@All
Fire up your amiupdates and check update.amigaos.net. There is the first update since the big update2 release: new timesync.library.

For more details about check: https://forum.hyperion-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4615

BE SURE you _DON'T_ use Enhancer's "version" command replacement when checking the version of the updated library. Itt didn't works as expected, but already fixed and will be released soon via updater.

Last edited by kas1e on 10-May-2021 at 05:13 PM.

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 12:57:32
#2 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2420
From: www.amigakit.com

@kas1e

Of course there is nothing "broken" with our Version command. This wouldn't be the way I would describe it and it is exaggerating the situation.

As a command built from scratch there were some missing marginal non-core functions. However they are implemented and we are beta testing them right now in the new release.

We will offer a public release through the Updater utility in the next week or so.

We will always respond to bug reports or feature requests as quickly as possible.

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eliyahu 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 13:52:19
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1869
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@amigakit

With all due respect there is *nothing* in kas1e's statement which is incorrect. Enhancer 2.0 *replaced* the version utility provided by the OS with something that doesn't behave in the same way; for the user, missing function isn't 'marginal' in the slightest.

This desire to replace the operating system with your own product, mimicking OS-style version numbers to muddy the waters, without providing any actual 'enhancement' is a rather less-than-brilliant decision IMO. I have no argument with improving the operating system, but wholesale replacement merely to allow you control and ownership offers nothing but headaches to customers.

This scenario will continue to happen where Enhancer-provided components behaving in unexpected ways cause issues for end-users. I strongly urge -- and I'm doing so in public -- not to replace OS components until they, at bare minimum, *fully* replicate the behavior of what they're replacing *and* offer the user a good reason to have replaced them in the first place.

This is such a shame because so much of the Enhancer project is truly wonderful and offers users a much improved AmigaOS experience. But replacing C:Version or C:Dir makes painfully little sense -- at least given what has been delivered publicly thus far. It's your money, and your vision, and I wish you luck with it. I just don't understand it.

-- eliyahu

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 14:25:36
#4 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2420
From: www.amigakit.com

@eliyahu

I have to gently disagree, the core functionality of our Version command is fully operational and certainly not broken. Some ancillary functions that are used in rarity were overlooked. Unfortunately it can happen when a program is written from scratch.

I fully accept your point that it should be feature complete. I hope you agree that the most important point is how we now respond to it. You will be pleased to know that we will redress this in the coming week with an updated version. It will be make an appearance on Updater utility with some enhanced functionality.

Thanks to all who are currently beta testing the new components.

Last edited by amigakit on 10-May-2021 at 02:28 PM.

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Skateman 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 14:35:42
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2017
Posts: 137
From: Netherlands

@amigakit


Quote:
Thanks to all who are currently beta testing the new components.


My pleasure ....

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 15:20:00
#6 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2420
From: www.amigakit.com

@Skateman

You are welcome

@Kas1e

It seems that at least two users have not experienced any problems with our Version command and have used it successfully with the update process you reference in the original post.

Here are the user posts:

KTadd:

https://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=125055#forumpost125055


Raziel:

https://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=125072#forumpost125072

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 15:34:45
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11917
From: Norway

@amigakit

Wow, you got two people who don’t complain, the rest of the user base don’t understand way you are replacing working stuff with less feature rich versions, or new components that cause more problems and confusions.

Personally, I only see value in making a upgrade if substantial gain, in functionality.

Next version of Hyperion version command is maybe going to have higher version number then yours, that's going to screw things up I bet.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2021 at 04:19 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2021 at 03:37 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2021 at 03:37 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2021 at 03:35 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 17:18:20
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3490
From: Russia

@Mattew
Just accept that idea of replacing system components creating MESS in end. Everyone keeps told you that. Even all your testers and most developers include major ones.

Yes, in this case, your version replacement didn't break installation but broke checking of the installed library.

You say "nothing broken", but IT IS BROKEN if it does not mimic 100% fully original! You provide version command which not behave like original, accept it, and didn't protect the mess you create with that replacements.

Really, Hyperion's devs (some of them, I dunno who or how or when) plan to make some more updates. And some of them will continue their versioning theme which you ... mm.. "overwrite" for some reasons (which really, not a very good movie). And that means, end-users will have issues and only can blame the replacement component from Enhancer, as well as versioning theme which you do not create from scratch, but pretend it to be like "next version" over original ones, while, it even didn't mimic fully (and never will) originals!

Last edited by kas1e on 10-May-2021 at 05:21 PM.

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mbrantley 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 19:13:06
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 547
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

@amigakit

Please, will you give your software unique names and stop overwriting the operating system files with files of the same name? As a user, I appreciate new software. But new software needs a new name, goshdarnit.

An example of how to do this correcty: MultiViewer and MultiView.

By the way, I use both, as the new program offers numerous enhancements. But I prefer the original MultiView for reading texts because it implements navigation keys (page up and page down) more correctly, in my view. I would not have been happy if MultiViewer had overwritten MultiView with a same-named program upon installation, as has happened with so many other parts of the Enhancer offerings.

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Fl@sh 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 19:27:22
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 237
From: Napoli - Italy

@amigakit

I really appreciate the willingness to continue with the development of amigaos in more or less fundamental parts.
Especially the creation of new drivers for newer cards not supported by the operating system, but also the development of exec, the basis of the operation of amigaos.

What I cannot understand, perhaps due to my limitations, is the fact that you want to take unnecessary responsibilities and risks in replacing parts of the operating system.

This fact exposes Amigakit to criticisms and reactions, more than understandable to me, without any advantage.

If you lack the imagination for the replacement names of the various amigaos commands, you can always take a poll and ask users which names they prefer

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klx300r 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 19:30:55
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3662
From: Toronto, Canada

@ amigakit

+1 on not messing with OS numbering systems and overwriting stuff. Enhancer stuff should have different numbering and naming protocols


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matthey 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 20:24:01
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1222
From: Kansas

There can be only one. One version to rule them all. Yet we have AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4, MorphOS, AROS and Enhancer Software versions which diverge in compatibility over time. In this case of the Enhancer Software version command, we have a simple incompatibility that can be fixed to be 100% compatible. The big problem is new functionality and features which will not match that of other AmigaOS like versions in the future ruining any hope of a unified AmigaOS. Lesser problems are error prone development, reduced testing in a fragmented market, duplication of development increasing total costs, confusion of users on what versions should be installed and confusion of 3rd party developers on what versions they should support.

More cooperation and a bigger market are needed to move the Amiga forward together. There needs to be agreement between developer teams on what functions, tags, flags, new features etc. are added in each duplicate AmigaOS component version or development teams should be combined which is more efficient. AmigaOS development is too expensive for such a small market as there aren't enough customers to spread out costs. This is why Hyperion was forced to stop development which added to this problem. Ignoring the problems won't help.

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ne_one 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 22:00:18
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:
AmigaOS development is too expensive for such a small market as there aren't enough customers to spread out costs. This is why Hyperion was forced to stop development which added to this problem. Ignoring the problems won't help.


So Hyperion isn't able to sustain development but they can bankroll a protracted legal squabble and prevent all of the other parties from doing exactly what you are suggesting?

Let's be real: Hyperion is essentially one person who is incapable of operating a viable business and has no genuine interest in the platform or the community.

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kolla 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 10-May-2021 23:09:22
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1869
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

There needs to be agreement between developer teams on what functions, tags, flags, new features etc. are added in each duplicate AmigaOS component version or development teams should be combined which is more efficient.


Wasn’t it exactly this the “closed source” development model was supposed to fix? No forking, no diverging…

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matthey 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 1:08:42
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1222
From: Kansas

ne_one Quote:

So Hyperion isn't able to sustain development but they can bankroll a protracted legal squabble and prevent all of the other parties from doing exactly what you are suggesting?


To be fair, Hyperion is the defendant in the lawsuit. The lawsuit is likely draining funds from Hyperion so restarting development is further out of reach. They could sale the AmigaOS 4 assets but then they would probably like to get at least as much out of it as the debt they have accumulated developing it but this may be unrealistic. It is likely that selling AmigaOS 4 would leave them with more debt than can be sustained with the small revenue they earn from porting software. They should have reduced development costs sooner or exited the under performing AmigaOS 4 development business sooner. They are hoping for some big break but there isn't likely to be any in this tiny niche market.

kolla Quote:

Wasn’t it exactly this the “closed source” development model was supposed to fix? No forking, no diverging…


No forking or diverging is supposed to be one of the biggest advantages of "closed source" development. Only Amiga makes everything impossible.

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simplex 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 1:17:32
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@kolla

Quote:
Wasn’t it exactly this the “closed source” development model was supposed to fix? No forking, no diverging…

+1

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BSzili 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 5:17:50
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 430
From: Unknown

@kolla

Touché!

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 6:27:33
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 247
From: Unknown

@matthey

Seems like they are selling a lot of AmigaOS 3.1.4 sets though. That must bring in quite a bit of income.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 7:54:18
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@kas1e

“AeonKit” is trying to more or less stealthy take over the Amiga, without actually buying it. Their long term ambition is to write a parallel OS4 replacement on their own (which this thread is an example of, as well as the kernel takeover, as well as sponsoring development of a parallel gfx system that many considers to be part of OS4 but actually isn’t, since it’s a separate product).

Just look at their website, the products there with names and brands far into the realms of official Amiga brands and models, but now a (TM) by AeonKit. Look at the graphical representation of their corporate logo. Look at the website domains they are registering. Look at the many hostile and conflicting trade mark registrations in many international registrations offices. Look at their splash screens in their AmigaOne computers, that with clever play with text sizes and colors almost make the text read “Amiga 5000”.

Schoolbook examples of parasiting, and they are always pushing it to see with how much they can get away with.

Not a very nice behavior if you ask me. And very telling about the ethics of those involved. Generally, you’d want to stay away from such people.

I have nothing against people trying to create new (and better) products as replacements, that has been the long standing ambitions of AROS and MorphOS to name a few. But it’s important to choose a different name for your product so it can stand by its own merits. Then it’s all good. But paraisting is disgusting, nobody likes a parasite.

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amigakit 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 11-May-2021 9:40:03
#20 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2420
From: www.amigakit.com

@TRIPOS

Let establish a few facts: there is no AEONKIT as you well know, there is AmigaKit Ltd and A-EON Technology Ltd, both separate entities.

Quote:
But paraisting is disgusting, nobody likes a parasite.


Parasite: a person who takes advantage of other people and fails to offer anything in return

If you analyse what A-EON has brought in just software over the last 9 years to the OS4 platform:

* RadeonHD
* RadeonRX
* Warp3D Southern Islands
* Warp3D Nova
* OpenGL ES 2.0
* Video Acceleration Library

These contributions detailed above alone are development costs of a six digit sum. This is certainly not parasitical behaviour as the receipts for these over the years are less than the development costs. There is currently no alternative system to this on OS4 and anyone is free to develop rival products on the platform including Hyperion.

Quote:
as well as sponsoring development of a parallel gfx system that many considers to be part of OS4 but actually isn’t, since it’s a separate product).


OS4 graphics system comprises of a Voodoo driver and Permedia driver. The other drivers bundled with the OS are owned by A-EON including the ATIRadeon.chip and PCIGraphics.card. They are certainly not used as a "parallel gfx system" as you describe it. Most users use these or RadeonHD / RadeonRX as their primary graphics system. If users want take the purist approach they would have to resort to finding an ancient Voodoo or Permedia card as that is the sum total of graphics cards that OS4 natively supports.

Quote:
Look at the website domains they are registering.


A-EON is the proprietor of the oldest continously running Amiga website, established in 1994, Amiga.org along with AmigaKit. As you know, A-EON also owns this long established website. AmigaKit is approaching two decades of trading and is well known across the community and owns websites related to it's principal activities over that long period.

The websites we maintain, we are investing in with resources: for example some years ago we rejuvenated the Amiga Developer Network. This was started by the Amiga.org team back in 1997. When Amiga.org was purchased, Amiga Developer was expanded in a new effort with many new developers. The result is the Enhancer Software.

With the Enhancer Software we continue to work hard to bring updates and new applications to A-EON customers who have invested in the A-EON hardware platforms.

We are not expecting our customers to wait for third party court cases to end or external legal matters to be resolved. This is a business that we need to continue to run for the benefit of our customer base and legal spats between other parties should be mitigated against to protect our users. We are proactively continuing development so they can enjoy using their A-EON hardware with the reassurance that software is being continually upgraded.

Last edited by amigakit on 11-May-2021 at 09:40 AM.

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